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  #24041  
Old 23-08-2018, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidofwonder View Post
Should the media highlight these problems in a responsible way?
Parts of the press are responsible, parts are sensationalist. It has always been thus.

Acting as if there is a nefarious operation by the press because they're reporting things Corbyn has said and done (and failed to do) is ridiculous.

Two and a half years ago Freedman wrote this piece. Corbyn called it "nasty subliminal stuff" and suggested he was obsessed. Read it and tell me what about it was irresponsible.

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The fault here is entirely with Labour and it's leadership. Stop looking to pass the buck.
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  #24042  
Old 23-08-2018, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickgusset View Post
You haven't read any of the counterarguments and dismiss any Jewish Voices that disagree with the adoption of the IHRA as antisemitic too, even though you don't read what they are saying.
Out of curiosity do you refer to Raheem Kassam as your source on right-wing islamaphobia? Is it particularly important to read what he's saying?
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  #24043  
Old 23-08-2018, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Scifo View Post
The nastiest stuff in this thread is coming from the people bent on rooting out anti-semitism at every turn.

Nick has born the brunt of most of it so far, and unless I've missed something he's getting it in the neck for:


Bringing up that Margaret Hodge's daughter works in the media. Something he has form for doing in this forum for non-Jewish people, but because in this instance the person is Jewish it has been deemed anti-semitic.

Giving Hodge abuse on here for her comments that she "kept thinking what did it feel like to be a Jew in Germany in the Thirties" when she was being investigated for calling the leader of her party a racist an antisemite. Something every newspaper in the county is happy to byline as her comparing to Nazi Germany. But somehow the groupthink on here has decided that suggesting thats what she meant is also anti-semitic.

Sharing articles from left wing sources that the people here consider irreputable.

Add to this he has been defending himself.



No wonder Labour is seen as having such an endemic anti-semitism when this all that's need to get you tarred. And when the act of defending yourself is seen as further proof of your guilt.


I nearly couldn't be bothered with the latest comments. but **** it










Please get off your high horse people. Have we really reached the point where flippant comments are no longer acceptable
Great post. Up there with the best.
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  #24044  
Old 23-08-2018, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
Out of curiosity do you refer to Raheem Kassam as your source on right-wing islamaphobia? Is it particularly important to read what he's saying?
I don't think ignorance is bliss, put it that way. I read widely.

Here's a peice in the Indy that summarises things well.

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  #24045  
Old 23-08-2018, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidofwonder View Post
it's not an excuse for idiots being idiots but if we all pulled back for a second and started to actually interrogate what was going on maybe we'd avoid getting drawn into polemics and work together to root anti-semitism out of the Labour party.
Not my job to sort out Labour's problems but why have they not shown even an ounce of sense in dealing with this?

You don't root out antisemitism by setting yourself against Jewish groups by arrogantly redefining the commonly held definition of antisemitism, putting yourself in a position of then attacking those jewish groups when they complain.

It is utter madness how a Corbyn led Labour party have gone about things.
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  #24046  
Old 23-08-2018, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
Out of curiosity do you refer to Raheem Kassam as your source on right-wing islamaphobia? Is it particularly important to read what he's saying?
Funny you mention him as the Labour Friends of Israel Facebook group let him post up Breitbart article on a regular basis. Of course they hate racism.
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  #24047  
Old 23-08-2018, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
Not my job to sort out Labour's problems but why have they not shown even an ounce of sense in dealing with this?

You don't root out antisemitism by setting yourself against Jewish groups by arrogantly redefining the commonly held definition of antisemitism, putting yourself in a position of then attacking those jewish groups when they complain.

It is utter madness how a Corbyn led Labour party have gone about things.
Because Labour Friends of Palestine and the Middle East, has traction within the party too. They are worried using the example under the microscope will severely curtail the right to speak out about Israeli actions, both past and present. Unfortunately this is dismissed as well others use it, You must be antisemitic.

Also there's a push against the BDS worldwide , this is a key factor too.

Barnet are looking into the legality of barring groups who want to promote boycotting Israeli goods (especially those grown on illegal settlements (According to the Geneva convention )
Several BDS events at university campuses have been stopped because of their usage of the IHRA.
It's curtailing legitimate protest.

That is most certainly not the way forward in a fair and democratic society.
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  #24048  
Old 23-08-2018, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickgusset View Post
Because Labour Friends of Palestine and the Middle East, has traction within the party too. They are worried using the example under the microscope will severely curtail the right to speak out about Israeli actions, both past and present. Unfortunately this is dismissed as well others use it, You must be antisemitic.

Also there's a push against the BDS worldwide , this is a key factor too.

Barnet are looking into the legality of barring groups who want to promote boycotting Israeli goods (especially those grown on illegal settlements (According to the Geneva convention )
Several BDS events at university campuses have been stopped because of their usage of the IHRA.
It's curtailing legitimate protest.

That is most certainly not the way forward in a fair and democratic society.
No surrender to the IHRA
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  #24049  
Old 23-08-2018, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
No surrender to the IHRA
Haha. Very good.
Les can call you antisemitic now for making light of the matter.

Personally I don't know either way, but there are enough Jewish people who agree with not adopting the IHRA fully ( something the Tories haven't done without any fuss ) to warrant looking at the pitfalls of adopting the IHRA example verbatim.
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  #24050  
Old 23-08-2018, 02:40 AM
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Pretty shocking if true.
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  #24051  
Old 23-08-2018, 03:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickgusset View Post
You haven't read any of the counterarguments and dismiss any Jewish Voices that disagree with the adoption of the IHRA as antisemitic too, even though you don't read what they are saying.
I don't dismiss Jewish Voices at all I just dismiss you who uses these jewish voices for your singled minded bias.you know I have a friend who is black who does not mind my take on racial discrimination.

You and a few on here are a minority who just shout loud on here thankfully.

From the independent

Majority believe Labour has handled allegations of antisemitism within party badly, poll says..

Survey finds less than a tenth of people believed Jeremy Corbyn's party had handled allegations within the party well.

The survey for The Independent found that just 9 per cent believed Labour had handled allegations of antisemitism within the party’s ranks well, while 60 per cent did not, and 30 per cent said they did not know.
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  #24052  
Old 23-08-2018, 03:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickgusset View Post
I don't think ignorance is bliss, put it that way. I read widely.

Here's a peice in the Indy that summarises things well.

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Your links do not suggest you read widely.
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  #24053  
Old 23-08-2018, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
Not my job to sort out Labour's problems but why have they not shown even an ounce of sense in dealing with this?

You don't root out antisemitism by setting yourself against Jewish groups by arrogantly redefining the commonly held definition of antisemitism, putting yourself in a position of then attacking those jewish groups when they complain.

It is utter madness how a Corbyn led Labour party have gone about things.
What do you mean commonly held. The IHRà is recent and I see nothing wrong with it all, but I do with some of the examples and when I have access to a computer, rather than a phone, I will go through on here line by line.
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  #24054  
Old 23-08-2018, 05:39 AM
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Is Heb seriously suggesting the media sren’t biased against Corbyn?
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  #24055  
Old 23-08-2018, 07:13 AM
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Pretty shocking if true.
Come on Elgin, that is speculative bollox. Not one fact or piece of evidence in the article.
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  #24056  
Old 23-08-2018, 07:19 AM
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Pretty shocking if true.
Just because something is on the internet doesn’t make it true.
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  #24057  
Old 23-08-2018, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by spt1978 View Post
Come on Elgin, that is speculative bollox. Not one fact or piece of evidence in the article.
That’s not true; Lizzi Watson does work at the BBC.

Where it falls down is the bit where it says “it follows” and then there’s stuff that doesn’t follow and a request for money to sue the Campaign Against Antisemitism.
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  #24058  
Old 23-08-2018, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by spt1978 View Post
Come on Elgin, that is speculative bollox. Not one fact or piece of evidence in the article.
But plenty of links to help crowdfund his appeal against his suspension from the Labour Party for questioning how many Jews were killed in the Holocaust...

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  #24059  
Old 23-08-2018, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post
What do you mean commonly held. The IHRà is recent and I see nothing wrong with it all, but I do with some of the examples and when I have access to a computer, rather than a phone, I will go through on here line by line.
AJ you are missing the point. This is not actually about the wording of the examples (I actually agree that some are a bit dubious) but about the timing and wisdom to challenge and reword/omit some when the Labour party are under scrutiny for whether they, and their leader are antisemitic or not. Currently they lack the credibility and are therefore treated with suspicion for wanting to change, what is a widely agreed upon definition (with examples).

They should have swallowed hard, shrugged their shoulders, accepted the IHRA in full for now and set about regaining the trust of the Jewish community as a whole before upsetting the apple cart. The fact they have not is what is grossly stupid here and a clear indication to me that they are totally unfit to be put in charge of the country.
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  #24060  
Old 23-08-2018, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by spt1978 View Post
Come on Elgin, that is speculative bollox. Not one fact or piece of evidence in the article.
I dont know if its true or not mate. Thats why i said its 'pretty shocking if true'. I do know the BBC does have a habit of finding the strangest interpretation of reporting world events that its possible to find though. Did they overlook the bigger story in favour of more smear here? I dont know because i avoid the bullshit corporation whenever i can. Perhaps someone who does watch it (for a laugh presumably) can confirm the running order of their stories that night?
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