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  #281  
Old 12-11-2017, 05:58 PM
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It has been known for ages that industrial production in Germany went up after Big week US bombing raids.
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  #282  
Old 12-11-2017, 06:01 PM
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Yes...also they had to harden production... the question of what production gains they would have been made without the raids is unanswerable.

Here is the crew chatter.


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  #283  
Old 12-11-2017, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Se9 eagles View Post
Exactly.In all of the memoirs and recollections of German soldiers I have read there is not one mention of this drug....
In previous posts I gave an example of a solider writing back home for more Pervitin just in case he ran out of the military issued and a whole article from Speigel on drugs issued by the German forces. Plus the book Blitzed on drug consumption under the 3rd Reich.
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  #284  
Old 12-11-2017, 06:25 PM
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?


I don't think that anybody is doubting its use, just that they are doubting its effect on the outcome.
Then have a read of Blitzed
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  #285  
Old 12-11-2017, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Chief Brody View Post
Yes, you are.

I’m not uncomfortable, I simply believe your tack lacks any credibility in substantiating the point. It’s also somewhat random.
Why is it random? Just because you haven't read on the subject it lacks credibility for you. Have a read of Blitzed its a really great read and insight into the issue of drug consumption under fascism.

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  #286  
Old 12-11-2017, 06:35 PM
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Yes they did.



You can stand by what you want but you are still wrong.



That is the line they want you to believe.
A very Machiavellian interpretation of why the Americans used the atomic bomb but probably a flawed one.Conpiracy theory at best but I agree it did no harm showing the Russians what the new weapon could do.
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  #287  
Old 12-11-2017, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by cdm61 View Post
Why is it random? Just because you haven't read on the subject it lacks credibility for you. Have a read of Blitzed its a really great read and insight into the issue of drug consumption under fascism.



I will say no more

I will seek it out, thanks.

Feel fee to say more. It’s good to talk!
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Re Benteke - 14 May 2017
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  #288  
Old 12-11-2017, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Chief Brody View Post
Anymore views on our bombing strategy being justified?

Certainly from a civilian casualty/morale point of view, I cannot find evidence that it shortened the War.
I heard on the radio recently, that Truman dropped the bombs because he was told there would be no civilian casualties. Hard to believe but it was a historian who was being interviewed
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  #289  
Old 13-11-2017, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by mrgins View Post
I heard on the radio recently, that Truman dropped the bombs because he was told there would be no civilian casualties. Hard to believe but it was a historian who was being interviewed
I was referring to GB's bombing offensive.
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He isnt top class mate

He is a limited player who scores goals with his head
Re Benteke - 14 May 2017
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  #290  
Old 13-11-2017, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Chief Brody View Post
Carrying on re the Pathfinder Force, Harris strongly resisted the creation of a ‘Corps D’elite’ as he felt it would undermine those aircrews who were not part of it.

He preferred a ‘Raid Leader’ scheme where the best Squadron crews did the target locating and marking. These crews could change dependent upon results on a monthly basis and would have little or no interaction with other designated crews.

The Air Ministry argued that the centralisation of best crews into a homegenous Force was not only critical to ensuring the optimum consistent training and thus results, it was simply the most logical in many respects.
So we had a situation where evidence was pointing heavily at a largely ineffective bombing campaign up to 1942.

We had the Air Officer Commanding, Bomber Command strongly resistant to a holistic proposal to improve the effectiveness of the campaign.

And this was allowed to continue.

Don Bennett (eventual AOC of the Pathfinder Force) said ‘Target Finding is essentially a matter of navigation. All members of the crew with the exception of the flight engineer must be organised to work together in carrying out the navigation’. This was the stark issue facing Bomber Command, and this view of resolving the issue was eminently sensible - and correct. If you correctly find and mark the target, you have a significantly better chance of fulfilling your objective.

Harris claimed that his Group Commanders were in opposition to a Pathfinder Force concept. He was '...not prepared to accept very serious disadvantages of a corps d’elite in order to secure some possible improvements on methods, which are already proving reasonably satisfactory, at cost of serious loss of morale and efficiency in other squadrons’.

'Reasonably satisfactory' is an interesting term. The Air Ministry was considering the very future of Bomber Command on the basis of the results they saw.
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He isnt top class mate

He is a limited player who scores goals with his head
Re Benteke - 14 May 2017
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  #291  
Old 13-11-2017, 02:36 PM
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German economy didn’t go on a Total War footing until ‘43
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  #292  
Old 13-11-2017, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Brody View Post
Anymore views on our bombing strategy being justified?

Certainly from a civilian casualty/morale point of view, I cannot find evidence that it shortened the War.
No, it probably didn't shorten the war by any significant amount. But, war is war. It would have been negligent to not utilize Bomber Command. You attack the enemy any way you can. Bombing citizens and not military or industrial centers was well established as a possible tactic by the time Dresden and Hamburg happened. Right or wrong, it was war. Hindsight is always going to be critical of what happened.
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  #293  
Old 13-11-2017, 04:08 PM
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German economy didn’t go on a Total War footing until ‘43
Indeed.Who can forget Goebbel's speech in the Sportspalast in February of that year-'Rise up and storm break loose!'On the other side but one of the great propagandists of the 20th Century...
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  #294  
Old 13-11-2017, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Se9 eagles View Post
Indeed.Who can forget Goebbel's speech in the Sportspalast in February of that year-'Rise up and storm break loose!'On the other side but one of the great propagandists of the 20th Century...
Yep. There's probably a lot of people that you can say 'The Nazis wouldn't have got to power without him/her, but aside from Hitler, Goebbels must have been the most important cog.
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  #295  
Old 14-11-2017, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Chief Brody View Post
Anymore views on our bombing strategy being justified?

Certainly from a civilian casualty/morale point of view, I cannot find evidence that it shortened the War.
It wasn't really, the whole strategy was based on faulty facts being fed to Churchill who had asked to have the strategy evaluated in comparison to continuing to attack military targets. This podcast does a great job of talking a bit about it; To view the link you have to Register or Login
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  #296  
Old 14-11-2017, 07:25 AM
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WW2 Discussion

On this day in 1940, the Luftwaffe bombs the city of Coventry with over 500 aircraft, led by KG.100, their specialist target finding force and imitated by the RAFs Pathfinder Force in mid 1942.
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He isnt top class mate

He is a limited player who scores goals with his head
Re Benteke - 14 May 2017

Last edited by Chief Brody; 14-11-2017 at 07:57 AM.
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  #297  
Old 14-11-2017, 08:13 PM
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Its a little known fact that the allied coalition in the first Iraq war was all for show, and the entire campaign was single handedly fought by Bez and Shaun Ryder, completely off their noggins
Will let you know in a minute cos I'm in the queue to see Happy Mondays at the O2 Bristol tonight.

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  #298  
Old 18-11-2017, 12:22 AM
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now what if Hitler hadn't delayed Barbarossa by 38 days (rain or Balkans campaign?) and Moscow had been captured before the winter of 1941

what would that have meant for the Russians?
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  #299  
Old 18-11-2017, 11:59 AM
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My grandfather was in the navy served on Hms Rodney was in a turret . Said he sunk the Bismark .
Also on D day bombarded targets all day long but sadly upon returning to Portsmouth hit and sunk a landing craft killing the crew returned to Normandy next day, more targets to fire upon aroud Caen
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