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  #1121  
Old 04-11-2016, 02:56 PM
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  #1122  
Old 04-11-2016, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
If the result of June 23rd is not honoured, then yes. Very much.
THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE (which most of the population didn't actually vote for)
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  #1123  
Old 04-11-2016, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
Absolutely. And also died that so when an issue is put to the British people, as it was on June 23rd, then it needs to be honoured.
No, they died fighting aggressive nationalism. Not for non-advisory referendums.
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  #1124  
Old 04-11-2016, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by palacea View Post
Throw it down to the vote in Parliament, say you either accept it or you don't. If you don't we call a general election for the mandate from the people (Also get's rid of the Tory pledge to remain in the single market).
Sorry, but what are you achieving? A general election won't make it any less imperative that the Article 50 submission goes before Parliament for scrutiny, no matter what the outcome of said election.

You seem to want to bypass the parliamentary sovereignty that I thought was one of the fundamental drivers of the leave vote.
Some brexiters clearly only want to honour the idea of parliamentary sovereignty when it doesn't throw up any inconvenient constitutional realities.

I have no idea how May can be confident that the ruling will be overturned in the Supreme Court. It wouldn't make any legal or constitutional sense.
You could almost be forgiven for thinking that no-one in power has really thought this brexit business through in any detail.

As for Cameron, he should be hung from his bollocks with razor wire. What a stupid c*nt.
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  #1125  
Old 04-11-2016, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
Need to get this up in front of Parliament now as soon as possible. Might actually even backfire on the Remain side because they will be exposed for what they really are i.e people who wish to dismiss the victory on June 23rd.

And let the Lords block it. It will be the last thing they ever get to block. About time we got rid of it. And I am sure all of you soc.libs would agree with me.
I am all in favour of an unelected 2nd chamber, but one that is made up mainly by lot and partly by qualification.

Ie 100 lay people selected randomly 50 appointed from professional bodies who serve a fixed 6 year term (6 months induction 6 months handover)
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  #1126  
Old 04-11-2016, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post
I am all in favour of an unelected 2nd chamber, but one that is made up mainly by lot and partly by qualification.

Ie 100 lay people selected randomly 50 appointed from professional bodies who serve a fixed 6 year term (6 months induction 6 months handover)
Great idea. I've always felt public service should be something you are called up to do due to your expertise and experience. It should also be a limited fixed term.
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  #1127  
Old 04-11-2016, 03:13 PM
Mat ov CPFC Mat ov CPFC is offline
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Originally Posted by Chief Brody View Post
No, they died fighting aggressive nationalism. Not for non-advisory referendums.

They died so that a vote meant something. This referendum was only ever framed in terms of being non-advisory after the event and after your side had got spanked.

Nobody even insinutated that the result would be ignored or put to one side. For once, politicians seemed more than straightforward on that point.

Failure to have that result honoured means that we no longer live in a democratic nation. It was a vote that actually meant something. A vote that truly counted with each one cast having the same amount of influence over the outcome. No rotton boroughs, no safe seats, no obvious politically tribal loyalties. Just a simple question, with two simple options.

An exercise in democracy at its finest.

And you want it ignored. Shame on you. And any and everybody else who thinks like you.
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  #1128  
Old 04-11-2016, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post
I am all in favour of an unelected 2nd chamber, but one that is made up mainly by lot and partly by qualification.

Ie 100 lay people selected randomly 50 appointed from professional bodies who serve a fixed 6 year term (6 months induction 6 months handover)
100 lay people selected randomly?
Jesus wept, that'll be a shitfest. The nature of the business of a scrutinising and amending chamber is often extremely complex.
It will like watching a live version of 'Idiocracy'.
I've served on juries twice, so I should know.
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  #1129  
Old 04-11-2016, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post
I am all in favour of an unelected 2nd chamber, but one that is made up mainly by lot and partly by qualification.

Ie 100 lay people selected randomly 50 appointed from professional bodies who serve a fixed 6 year term (6 months induction 6 months handover)
It would be nice to have a few non top professionals too. A single mum on the St Paul's Cray estate who manages to bring her kids up well on a tight budget is performing a level of financial management that would put many people to shame. In fact she's an expert in making ends meet.
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  #1130  
Old 04-11-2016, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
They died so that a vote meant something. This referendum was only ever framed in terms of being non-advisory after the event and after your side had got spanked.

Nobody even insinutated that the result would be ignored or put to one side.
It was advisory by law, due to To view the link you have to Register or Login. This, of course, happened prior to the vote.

Nobody is trying to ignore or put aside the result.

Silly.
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  #1131  
Old 04-11-2016, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stellavista View Post
100 lay people selected randomly?
Jesus wept, that'll be a shitfest. The nature of the business of a scrutinising and amending chamber is often extremely complex.
It will like watching a live version of 'Idiocracy'.
I've served on juries twice, so I should know.
Agree with that.

I've often wondered if it should be anchored on to peerage that is awarded by government (i.e. if you accept the title of 'Sir' or 'Dame' etc) that it should be on the condition that you will have to serve a fixed term in the scrutinizing chamber, and thus entice people who've provided great service or achievement to specific areas of society.
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  #1132  
Old 04-11-2016, 03:22 PM
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Adlerhorst Adlerhorst is offline
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
This referendum was only ever framed in terms of being non-advisory after the event.
Agreed. Brexiters didn't start claiming it was non-advisory until after the event. Before then they assumed and didn't read the small print.

But then the only way you can get a brexiters to read anything is by putting it in big letters on the side of a bus and it wasn't that a short act and there probably weren't enough buses.
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  #1133  
Old 04-11-2016, 03:27 PM
Mat ov CPFC Mat ov CPFC is offline
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Agreed. Brexiters didn't start claiming it was non-advisory until after the event. Before then they assumed and didn't read the small print.

.
Come off it. When you went along and ticked the box for us to Remain, did you honestly believe that you were only expressing a preference and that Government would not be expected to honour that but take it into account? So that in effect, the entire process was no more than a glorified opinion poll?
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  #1134  
Old 04-11-2016, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
They died so that a vote meant something. This referendum was only ever framed in terms of being non-advisory after the event and after your side had got spanked.

Nobody even insinutated that the result would be ignored or put to one side. For once, politicians seemed more than straightforward on that point.

Failure to have that result honoured means that we no longer live in a democratic nation. It was a vote that actually meant something. A vote that truly counted with each one cast having the same amount of influence over the outcome. No rotton boroughs, no safe seats, no obvious politically tribal loyalties. Just a simple question, with two simple options.

An exercise in democracy at its finest.

And you want it ignored. Shame on you. And any and everybody else who thinks like you.

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  #1135  
Old 04-11-2016, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
But then the only way you can get a brexiters to read anything is by putting it in big letters on the side of a bus and it wasn't that a short act and there probably weren't enough buses.
I understand that it is now a Constitutional requirement that no legislation has any statutory effect unless it is written on the side of a big red bus but specifically the Number 9.
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  #1136  
Old 04-11-2016, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
So that in effect, the entire process was no more than a glorified opinion poll?
Constitutionally, yes.
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  #1137  
Old 04-11-2016, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
They died so that a vote meant something.
Mat stop with this bollocks. We remember the soldiers that died for their valor and honour. The soldiers that died in Iraq did not die for the vote. The soldiers in Afghanistan did not die for the vote. The soldiers in the first world war did not die for the vote. For heavens sake women only got the right to vote in 1928.

Please stop mixing remembering our fallen with modern EU UK politics. There is simply no bloody connection. Worse still it dishonours the memory of brave proud men that died because they were ordered to walk into machine gun fire to protect their country from being militarily invaded.
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  #1138  
Old 04-11-2016, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mik59 View Post
I understand that it is now a Constitutional requirement that no legislation has any statutory effect unless it is written on the side of a big red bus but specifically the Number 9.
That's no good. I don't live near that route.
How the f*ck will I find out?
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  #1139  
Old 04-11-2016, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
They died so that a vote meant something. This referendum was only ever framed in terms of being non-advisory after the event and after your side had got spanked.

And you want it ignored. Shame on you. And any and everybody else who thinks like you.
Bollocks.

&

Bollocks.
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  #1140  
Old 04-11-2016, 03:32 PM
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That's no good. I don't live near that route.
How the f*ck will I find out?
Every democratic system has its flaws.
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