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  #81  
Old 04-04-2018, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
Often somewhat brutally - I remember reading of a 18 year old who was involved in a break in. The home owner shot and killed on of the kids, and the 18 year old, got 57 years for felony homicide.

He could well have gotten less if he'd actually murdered his friend
I’m sure this was on life and death row or one of the Netflix docs?

What made it worse was the accomplice who’d ‘broken’ in and not been shot, and subsequently jailed for murder, claimed it was a drug deal gone bad and they’d never broken in in the first place.

Judicial system in the US is mad in places and shows exactly why you can’t have carts blanche to murder intruders given the possibilities that unfold.
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  #82  
Old 04-04-2018, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
Tony Martin is innocent.
Only if you change the concept of guilty, ignore the jury verdict and both trials.... He might technically have grounds of diminished responsibility.

Even if the gun was legal owned, shooting someone fleeing is not reasonable force. Despite the pressure, the media coverage and the public demand for him to be innocent, he could never have been under UK law (then or now).
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  #83  
Old 04-04-2018, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by The EEEAAAGGGLLLEEE!!! View Post
And this is exactly why Britain has gone down the toilet. If your house is broken into the police normally won't come to investigate. If you defend your property (or yourself) you end up being prosecuted. It's insane.
Well I’d rather live in the U.K. and be subject to our gun control and laws than those where you are in the US!

We do have a right to proportionate self defence, and as others have said, this guy might well not face a charge. Or if he does, he might well be found innocent due to the circumstances.....there is a very long way to go in this process before he’s found guilty of anything, if ever.
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  #84  
Old 04-04-2018, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Not so. I think the only assumptions being made on here are made by those who say that it was legitimate self-defence. I do hope it was ; but we have to wait and see.
We don't know the facts, but even if we did it's difficult to quantify what's an over reaction, as everyone perceives things differently.

On the face of it, the shock of seeing two people in your home would be bad enough, add to the fact the home owner was elderly and one of the intruders was 'armed' with a screw driver. Then grabbing an item like knife to fight/defend yourself doesn't seem over the top.

We will see.
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  #85  
Old 04-04-2018, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TopKnot View Post
Get in a fight with a burglar and end up stabbing him to protect yourself from harm = probably ok

Get in a fight with a burglar, knock him out, tie him up and stab him through the head to teach him a lesson = probably not ok

We don’t know what happened so can’t say if the old guy is guilty.
He still gets off if I'm on the jury.
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  #86  
Old 04-04-2018, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
He still gets off if I'm on the jury.
Let's hope that you are never, ever, called up for jury service.
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  #87  
Old 04-04-2018, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
Whatever, if I'm on the jury he's free, with a George Cross and load of crim compo.
Criminal juries don't tend to award George Crosses.
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  #88  
Old 04-04-2018, 02:47 PM
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[QUOTE=Skintagain;14193150]Whatever, if I'm on the jury he's free, with a George Cross and load of crim compo.[/QUOTE

If I'm on the jury, I'll go on the evidence presented, and whether I believe that he's guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

Same as I'd like to think I'd try to do in any case I sat on. I mean, what if he isn't, and you just set a murderer free?
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  #89  
Old 04-04-2018, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
Only if you change the concept of guilty, ignore the jury verdict and both trials.... He might technically have grounds of diminished responsibility.

Even if the gun was legal owned, shooting someone fleeing is not reasonable force. Despite the pressure, the media coverage and the public demand for him to be innocent, he could never have been under UK law (then or now).
I was initially sympathetic until I read considerably more about that case. I felt he was provoked and therefore deserved some empathy for the circumstances. However, he was guilty of murder and it was right that he served some time.
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  #90  
Old 04-04-2018, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
I mean, what if he isn't, and you just set a murderer free?
Can you really put a price on a man's right to kill people in his own home?
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  #91  
Old 04-04-2018, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scro View Post
Establish if the man was a burglar unknown to the man and close the case. I am happy with the chap deciding what was justice in his own home. No need for anymore detail for me.
I think you'll find they have to kill you before it's ok to fight back.

Its shows intent.
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  #92  
Old 04-04-2018, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by IanH View Post
I hope they don't charge him - can't see any jury convicting him here - more public money down the drain if they do. I wonder if he is from a certain background which is why they have arrested him on suspicion of murder. Eddie Richardson is around that age
Eddie Richardson is 83 I think - as I'm distantly related to him (I think he'd be my mums cousin through marriage once removed).

I guess the give away would be whether the burglar was fixed to the floor.
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  #93  
Old 04-04-2018, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EryrExile View Post
Can you really put a price on a man's right to kill people in his own home?
12-25 years is the going rate.
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  #94  
Old 04-04-2018, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
He still gets off if I'm on the jury.
Hand job or blowie?
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  #95  
Old 04-04-2018, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
Tony Martin was c...............

He was in no way defending himself, according to the Jury, he was waiting to ambush and kill those intruders.
On the other hand he was on an isolated farm and targeted by burglars, the police are useless, his only option was to take matters into his own hands. Without the shotgun there's a good chance he'd have paid with his life. They were in his house to rob and could have possibly killed him. The red mist descended, so what. If I was on the jury he'd have been ok.
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  #96  
Old 04-04-2018, 03:02 PM
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Give the old boy a ' one less scummy burglar ' medal .
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  #97  
Old 04-04-2018, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
On the other hand he was on an isolated farm and targeted by burglars, the police are useless, his only option was to take matters into his own hands. Without the shotgun there's a good chance he'd have paid with his life. They were in his house to rob and could have possibly killed him. The red mist descended, so what. If I was on the jury he'd have been ok.
And you seem to be so proud of that.

Odd.
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  #98  
Old 04-04-2018, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by St.Francois View Post
We don't know the facts, but even if we did it's difficult to quantify what's an over reaction, as everyone perceives things differently.

On the face of it, the shock of seeing two people in your home would be bad enough, add to the fact the home owner was elderly and one of the intruders was 'armed' with a screw driver. Then grabbing an item like knife to fight/defend yourself doesn't seem over the top.

We will see.
Correct.

Although I'd add that like football, you have to get your retaliation in first.
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  #99  
Old 04-04-2018, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
12-25 years is the going rate.
Exactly how long John Joe Gray spent standing up for all our homes in which we make the rules.
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  #100  
Old 04-04-2018, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Let's hope that you are never, ever, called up for jury service.
Done it twice already and the foreman in both to boot.
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