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  #23041  
Old 17-08-2018, 05:51 AM
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Er, no. Really, no.

(For example, what does “support Israel” in your post actually mean?)
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  #23042  
Old 17-08-2018, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post
Margaret Hodge's response to the shocking, vile and disgusting sexual abuse, rape and murder of children under her watch in Islington is beyond excuse. She went beyond blaming the victims and actually called them mentally unstable.

So much so she lost a case in court and had to personally pay damages.

That Blair made her minister for children was Britain's greatest ironical job title up until anthony himself became the middle east,'s special peace envoy
So if there are reasons such as these to throw mud at her, then fine do it, but it takes a certain type of incredible stupidity to criticise a daughter of a holocaust survivor, whilst defending yourself against claims of anti-semitism, for making a comparison to Germany in the '30s.

How anyone can reach a conclusion other than gross incompetence for the way that Corbyn, and the Labour party have handled this row is beyond me.

It is one own goal after another, after another.
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  #23043  
Old 17-08-2018, 05:58 AM
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What about comparing Israel’s actions against Palestine to those of the Nazis against their targets? Most Israelis are relatives of Holocaust victims and survivors.
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  #23044  
Old 17-08-2018, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by NickP View Post
It's really about Israel v Palestine. Anybody who does not wholly support Israel must, by definition, pose an "existential threat" to Israel and is therefore anti-Semitic.
Worrying nonsense.
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  #23045  
Old 17-08-2018, 06:07 AM
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Hey, you remember that article a few days ago saying Corbyn's side needs to decide whether all this stuff is distraction or evidence of a great man etc. etc.? Yeah, well shit like this...

Quote:
The Daily Telegraph, Daily Mail and various others have also published a photo of him folding his thumb while holding up his fingers, in a way they describe as a salute to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. That settles it. If you donít constantly check the shape of your thumb to make sure itís not folded in a way similar to the way itís folded by Muslim groups in Egypt, you might as well strap Semtex to your chest and get a bus to Syria.
...it's why people say that.

It's really laughable that Steel, or anybody else, would suggest Corbyn just happened to have his thumb folded, so it just happened to look like the Rabaa salute. Because that's obviously ridiculous, and he's obviously doing the Rabaa salute, and very intentionally.

Maybe instead of making fun of the suggestion that Corbyn might have made a hand gesture in support of upwards of 1000+ people killed and 4000+ people injured by the Egyptian authorities, Corbyn's supporters need to have enough respect for themselves, their opponents and the dead of Rabaa to say "yes, he did, and that's the right thing, because 1000 were killed and that's not something to make jokes about."
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  #23046  
Old 17-08-2018, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EryrExile;
It's really laughable that Steel, or anybody else, would suggest Corbyn just happened to have his thumb folded, so it just happened to look like the Rabaa salute. Because that's obviously ridiculous, and he's obviously doing the Rabaa salute, and very intentionally.
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Eh? Are people now saying that this gesture is accidental??!!

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  #23047  
Old 17-08-2018, 06:45 AM
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Corbyn believes in two things, and he has repeatedly said this in the past as an MP and leader of the Labour Party.

1. He believes in dialogue, extreme dialogue first, until agreement is found, and condemns all violent methods to achieve the same outcome.

2. He believes the only way this can be done is to treat all sides of conflict wherever possible, equally, to enable and facilitate that dialogue, as it rarely happens any other way. This will mean meeting with adversaries from time to time and empathising with losses on both sides.

A further observation is that the people of this country will find it hard to accept the above, especially item 2. above, as it goes against the historical grain of the British psyche, despite it being a traditional Christian mantra in an alleged Christian country.

A second observation is that this makes any leader of any party more vulnerable to attack from a variety of sources, especially political opponents who can "weaponise" what is perceived as weakness or worse, "traitorous" behaviour.

In my opinion, and under these circumstances, Corbyn should not dodge and dive around these issues, but simply own up, as he has done so on many occasions in the past that this is his way of working and is not going to apologise for it, or lie to alleviate criticism. When is he going to do this?
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  #23048  
Old 17-08-2018, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Eh? Are people now saying that this gesture is accidental??!!

Have you never heard of "Dupytrens contracture". Very common in older men
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  #23049  
Old 17-08-2018, 06:50 AM
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NickP came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietNickP came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietNickP came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietNickP came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietNickP came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietNickP came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietNickP came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietNickP came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietNickP came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietNickP came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietNickP came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
Worrying nonsense.
Don't think so.

I've always supported Israel's right to exist - it's been there my whole life, for Christ's sake. My first wife spent a lot of time in Tel Aviv and I remember bombs being launched from Iraq into that city. frightening.

But if I was to point out that the treatment of Palestinians and the grabbing of land and the Jewish only laws had a whiff of fascism about them - then I am in breach of the code and anti-Semitic.

To me, THAT is the worrying nonsense here.
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  #23050  
Old 17-08-2018, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
Novichock slipped into Hebs drink, 54 secs.
0.54 seconds
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Russia demonization. Akin to 1930's Germany.

Who funds the anti russia propaganda site bellingcat? http://newsvideo.su/video/9455566
Pretty obvious really.
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  #23051  
Old 17-08-2018, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
Corbyn believes in two things, and he has repeatedly said this in the past as an MP and leader of the Labour Party.

1. He believes in dialogue, extreme dialogue first, until agreement is found, and condemns all violent methods to achieve the same outcome.

2. He believes the only way this can be done is to treat all sides of conflict wherever possible, equally, to enable and facilitate that dialogue, as it rarely happens any other way. This will mean meeting with adversaries from time to time and empathising with losses on both sides.
All laudable. Except Corbyn is going about it in a manner than suggests otherwise.

If he believes that dialogue is the only way forward then I'd suggest that openly aligning himself with organisations that wish to obliterate Israel isn't going to open many dialogue doors with Israel. In fact, quite the opposite. It'll just fuel their siege mentality.

His present/past actions are all very well for a 6th form political student but he's now potentially a leader-in-waiting. His past actions and affiliations will negatively impact his chance of 'enabling and facilitating dialogue' as one important side (Israel) will undoubtedly want to have nothing to do with him.
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  #23052  
Old 17-08-2018, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickP View Post
Don't think so.

I've always supported Israel's right to exist - it's been there my whole life, for Christ's sake. My first wife spent a lot of time in Tel Aviv and I remember bombs being launched from Iraq into that city. frightening.

But if I was to point out that the treatment of Palestinians and the grabbing of land and the Jewish only laws had a whiff of fascism about them - then I am in breach of the code and anti-Semitic.

To me, THAT is the worrying nonsense here.
But you are still free to criticise Israel for their policies against the Palestinians.

Your post also said that if you did wholly support Israel you were therefore anti-semitic. I am unsure if you agree with this or are simply making a comment that the IHRA definition of anti-semitism results in this conclusion.
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  #23053  
Old 17-08-2018, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elgin eagle View Post
0.54 seconds
Strike first. Like your style
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  #23054  
Old 17-08-2018, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by nickgusset View Post
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Outstanding Even better that Pleb can't try to smear him in some way.
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Russia demonization. Akin to 1930's Germany.

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Pretty obvious really.
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  #23055  
Old 17-08-2018, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
Strike first. Like your style
I couldn't endure 53 seconds of it Cary. I disagree with every word that comes out of its mouth.
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Russia demonization. Akin to 1930's Germany.

Who funds the anti russia propaganda site bellingcat? http://newsvideo.su/video/9455566
Pretty obvious really.
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  #23056  
Old 17-08-2018, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
I've read some of the testimony from victims who are pretty critical of their local MP too.
Youíre every bit as swivel eyed in your defence of your blairite chums as the biggest corbynite. Pathetic.
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  #23057  
Old 17-08-2018, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
You're posting up the views of a Catholic woman who has made openly Anti-Semitic comments, and decided to co-opt a Jewish identity as a way of protecting herself from criticism, as evidence of the "Jewish viewpoint".

So I don't think I really need to comment on the content. I don't know who the other authors are, but yes the piece is discredited.
Heb decides who is and isnít Jewish. Nice.
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  #23058  
Old 17-08-2018, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by EryrExile View Post
Hey, you remember that article a few days ago saying Corbyn's side needs to decide whether all this stuff is distraction or evidence of a great man etc. etc.? Yeah, well shit like this...



...it's why people say that.

It's really laughable that Steel, or anybody else, would suggest Corbyn just happened to have his thumb folded, so it just happened to look like the Rabaa salute. Because that's obviously ridiculous, and he's obviously doing the Rabaa salute, and very intentionally.

Maybe instead of making fun of the suggestion that Corbyn might have made a hand gesture in support of upwards of 1000+ people killed and 4000+ people injured by the Egyptian authorities, Corbyn's supporters need to have enough respect for themselves, their opponents and the dead of Rabaa to say "yes, he did, and that's the right thing, because 1000 were killed and that's not something to make jokes about."
Well yeah. What is wrong with making that hand gesture?
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  #23059  
Old 17-08-2018, 07:26 AM
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I doubt it. Elginís all mouth, no hair.

(Okay so maybe less than 53 seconds)
Actually I'm all hair, no mouth now.

Agree strongly with the other bit.
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Russia demonization. Akin to 1930's Germany.

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Pretty obvious really.
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  #23060  
Old 17-08-2018, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOL_Beagle View Post
All laudable. Except Corbyn is going about it in a manner than suggests otherwise.

If he believes that dialogue is the only way forward then I'd suggest that openly aligning himself with organisations that wish to obliterate Israel isn't going to open many dialogue doors with Israel. In fact, quite the opposite. It'll just fuel their siege mentality.

His present/past actions are all very well for a 6th form political student but he's now potentially a leader-in-waiting. His past actions and affiliations will negatively impact his chance of 'enabling and facilitating dialogue' as one important side (Israel) will undoubtedly want to have nothing to do with him.
History has shown that dialogue usually is the concluding method to bring about peace. Eventually, there will be that dialogue, there has to be, unless the Palestinian people are going to be wiped out or exiled from their home completely by expansionism from the other side.

I think you have not read his approach correctly. Israel does not need support yet or even dialogue with Corbyn, after all he is not in a position to influence their policies in opposition. In Palestine's very weak position he is focusing on the underdog and their current plight, which is far greater than Israel's, and where he can influence more easily and effectively. There is the hope, as with the IRA who were the weaker underdog too, that he can change things and get Hamas down the route of dialogue, rather than resorting to an exchange of missiles or air attacks, every time something goes wrong in that process.

There is no doubt in my mind that Israel is not going to change at the moment and that the expansionism will continue, against the wishes of the UN, so it will need ultimately, just like south Africa, a new set of sanctions to to ease the way to meaningful talks. The important thing is to talk to both the moderates and the violent ones, empathise when valid in tandem, as a means to solve the issues and to ease tensions.

I think we do agree though, that Corbyn hasn't handled things in the right manner, but for different reasons.
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