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  #22821  
Old 21-07-2017, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Tomo View Post
Not aimed at you in particular, but more a general question to all drivers...



ASLEF come back and say, "Southern have agreed there will now be a guaranteed second member of staff on every train, however there won't be any payrise for 4 years. You can either accept this offer, or the offer that was already on the table."



(Let's assume those are the only 2 options available rather than saying you'd just reject both)

Tough one... id prefer no pay rise this year (pay rise is already 9 months late) and no pay rise next year in exchange for T&C's. I'd probably take it but be mightily pissed off about it.

The problem with Southern not paying the same rate as other TOCs, is drivers will just leave.
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  #22822  
Old 21-07-2017, 08:28 AM
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Pay rise will be back dated though, no? They normally are.
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  #22823  
Old 21-07-2017, 08:30 AM
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  #22824  
Old 21-07-2017, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Lombardo 888 View Post
A few posts ago, Mushroom conceded that if enough money was thrown at drivers then 50.1% would accept. IMO, that has always been clear.



Once guards aren't opening the doors, trains "in an emergency" can run without them. We all know that means that if they strike, the trains still run. Guards can't strike means the end if guards. Would ASLEF be OK causing that?

It's just a theory, I'm proud my colleagues have turned down massive pay rises and a 1000 bonus.


Yep, if enough money is thrown at drivers, I think they'll get a majority to accept. So far they've offered 23.8% and the vote for strike has increased. So maybe I am wrong.

I would be delighted if I am wrong.
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  #22825  
Old 21-07-2017, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Pay rise will be back dated though, no? They normally are.

I'd hope so... they usually are... but the relationship between company and employees is at a all time low... wouldn't put it past Southern to say **** u, and not back date.

Southern underpaid all staff for years, due to the way it calculates holiday pay. All have been back paid... except the guards that went on strike (at my depot anyway) So Southern have form for withholding pay.
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  #22826  
Old 21-07-2017, 08:34 AM
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A driver a few posts back said without OT, he earns 52-53K. Is the increase turned down 23.8% on that!
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  #22827  
Old 21-07-2017, 08:36 AM
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Southern Railway bastards

They also have form for blocking overtime, and cancelling trains due to lack of staff. Their fear was staff would use overtime to fund industrial action.
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  #22828  
Old 21-07-2017, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Lombardo 888 View Post
A driver a few posts back said without OT, he earns 52-53K. Is the increase turned down 23.8% on that!

Yea (over 4 years)

Unless you read the Evening Standard, and we're all getting 75k a year.
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  #22829  
Old 21-07-2017, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mushroom View Post
They also have form for blocking overtime, and cancelling trains due to lack of staff. They're fear was staff would use overtime to fund industrial action.
How would that work? I mean we've seen the impact a ban on overtime can have. The service doesn't run. So if Aouthern banned overtime wouldn't there be the exact same chaos?
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  #22830  
Old 21-07-2017, 08:41 AM
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The sheer ******* state of this country, that it takes disabled people in wheelchairs to block a road's worth of traffic - clearly more important to the economy and to steer us clear of austerity - simply to deliver a petition to the very people that should allow them to travel freely.

It is embarrassing.

A few years back all we worried about was a horse-meat in our lasagne, this nation has been gang-banged!
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  #22831  
Old 21-07-2017, 08:42 AM
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So if Aouthern banned overtime wouldn't there be the exact same chaos?
Not if O/T was a non-issue.
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  #22832  
Old 21-07-2017, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
How would that work? I mean we've seen the impact a ban on overtime can have. The service doesn't run. So if Aouthern banned overtime wouldn't there be the exact same chaos?

They stopped guards doing overtime during first strike, they denied it, then a memo surfaced on twitter from a *manager saying don't use overtime to cover uncovered jobs.


*manager is now training to be driver.
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  #22833  
Old 21-07-2017, 08:44 AM
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*manager is now training to be driver.


Tbf drivers probably get paid more
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  #22834  
Old 21-07-2017, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mushroom View Post
Yea (over 4 years)

Unless you read the Evening Standard, and we're all getting 75k a year.
Not wanting to accept anything Osborne says but the same driver who said he earns 52K said he loses 500 pm not doing OT. That is 12 pa. I believe there are benefits which include free travel for families (sorry if I have that wrong) but although 75 is probably excessive, it's not ridiculous.

BTW, good luck to drivers if they can earn this sort of money.
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  #22835  
Old 21-07-2017, 08:49 AM
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Tbf drivers probably get paid more

Yes, and they told him he was gonna be a OBS manager, and he realised OBS's aren't long term... no OBS's = no OBS manager... he jumped before pushed.
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  #22836  
Old 21-07-2017, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Lombardo 888 View Post
Not wanting to accept anything Osborne says but the same driver who said he earns 52K said he loses 500 pm not doing OT. That is 12 pa. I believe there are benefits which include free travel for families (sorry if I have that wrong) but although 75 is probably excessive, it's not ridiculous.



BTW, good luck to drivers if they can earn this sort of money.

Some drivers gobble o/t, some older ones (like me) are shattered and need rest. I'm absolutely convinced shift work takes years off your life.
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  #22837  
Old 21-07-2017, 08:54 AM
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Not aimed at you in particular, but more a general question to all drivers...

ASLEF come back and say, "Southern have agreed there will now be a guaranteed second member of staff on every train, however there won't be any payrise for 4 years. You can either accept this offer, or the offer that was already on the table."

(Let's assume those are the only 2 options available rather than saying you'd just reject both)
I'd waive a payrise if we kept an OBS with the promise that they will be trained to be safety CRITICAL to the point that the monitors on platforms and in cab were up to scratch. Then they can come back to the table and negotiate about "modernising" the role of the Guard/OBS - as they should have done in the first place (and no I am not excusing the unions' lack of action in not seeing this coming).

I used to be a metro driver and now am on the coast. Even in the rush hour on the mainline, I would still apply the same policy I did when a wheelchair-bound passenger's pre-booked travel didn't turn up when I was London-based. I called control and a union rep to clarify whether we can assist with the ramps - both explained that it is not accepted practise for drivers. I held the train at West Norwood for 25 minutes and waited for a member of platform staff to be send in a taxi from Balham to load the passenger. Admittedly, this was about 9pm on Tuesday night in Autumn or something but I followed both company and union protocol. I wasn't even sent a please explain (the delay) form and had no criticism from any manager.

Why should I treat a disabled passenger in Berwick or the middle of bum-**** nowhere differently and leave them on the platform simply because I am further from a manned station and it may be longer to wait for a taxi to turn up?
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  #22838  
Old 21-07-2017, 09:03 AM
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I'd waive a payrise if we kept an OBS with the promise that they will be trained to be safety CRITICAL to the point that the monitors on platforms and in cab were up to scratch. Then they can come back to the table and negotiate about "modernising" the role of the Guard/OBS - as they should have done in the first place (and no I am not excusing the unions' lack of action in not seeing this coming).

I used to be a metro driver and now am on the coast. Even in the rush hour on the mainline, I would still apply the same policy I did when a wheelchair-bound passenger's pre-booked travel didn't turn up when I was London-based. I called control and a union rep to clarify whether we can assist with the ramps - both explained that it is not accepted practise for drivers. I held the train at West Norwood for 25 minutes and waited for a member of platform staff to be send in a taxi from Balham to load the passenger. Admittedly, this was about 9pm on Tuesday night in Autumn or something but I followed both company and union protocol. I wasn't even sent a please explain (the delay) form and had no criticism from any manager.

Why should I treat a disabled passenger in Berwick or the middle of bum-**** nowhere differently and leave them on the platform simply because I am further from a manned station and it may be longer to wait for a taxi to turn up?
Yet I got a please explain for a 3 minute delay for using the toilet at Sutton, despite telling the signaller and despite my CDM telling me I would never get a please explain for having to use the loo.
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  #22839  
Old 21-07-2017, 09:08 AM
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Yet I got a please explain for a 3 minute delay for using the toilet at Sutton, despite telling the signaller and despite my CDM telling me I would never get a please explain for having to use the loo.
My favourite response was from a Vic bloke that received a form for a one minute delay between some stations near Worthing, his response was "extremely strong headwind".
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Old 21-07-2017, 09:16 AM
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My favourite response was from a Vic bloke that received a form for a one minute delay between some stations near Worthing, his response was "extremely strong headwind".

I love it when they ask for a report for 1 min after long weekend. You book on Wednesday morning, and have a report for 1 lost minute at 1439 on the previous Thursday. No chance of me remembering
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