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  #141  
Old 12-09-2017, 10:59 AM
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So De Boer plays a system that my 1 year old know wont work with the players we have. Loses 3 nothing to Huddesfield at home. Then does it again. Plays players out of position. Plays Lee instead of Luka. Puncheon plays every week despite being so short of confidence he looks about league 1.

Parish hires a manager and doesnt back him at all. Then sacks him after the only half decent performance. Goes to Ashton and Maylon to spread unrest in the media over De Boers futures. Approaches Hogdson several days ago.

Between them they dont sign a keeper despite our current number 1 being the worst in the top 2 divisions. Start the season with 1 senior striker.

The whole thing is a total farce and a catalogue of errors yet people are blaming the players? Laughable.

Has Gilsey been on yet to tell us a very good 'source' tells him it was Delaney at fault?
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  #142  
Old 12-09-2017, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Billyd View Post
The whole thing is a total farce and a catalogue of errors yet people are blaming the players?
I agree with all your points, but, seeing as it's the players that actually go out there and play football, they have to take some responsibility regardless of whether you believe these stories.
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  #143  
Old 12-09-2017, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by brighton_eagle View Post
I agree with all your points, but, seeing as it's the players that actually go out there and play football, they have to take some responsibility regardless of whether you believe these stories.
To a point and I know they are paid vast sums to be professionals etc but when 90 percent of Palace supporters could see FdB was doing something that wouldn't work with our players we can hardly then be surprised and outraged that this happened.
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  #144  
Old 12-09-2017, 11:20 AM
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The lengths some will go to to defend the players is quite admirable.

Rubbish under Warnock: "A dinosaur. Manager suited to the championship etc"
Rubbish under Pardew after a good start: "Newcastle fans were right. Players unfit. Tactically rubbish, lets them off in training etc."
Starting and ending rubbish under Allardyce coinciding with good form when Sakho was in the team: "Pardew's mess. Confidence shattered." However, as we were losing these games with 30% possession the manager (deservedly) didn't come in for too much criticism.
4 poor games under de Boer: "Absolute rubbish. Has no achievements as a manager, Dutch league worse than the conference. Unreasonable to try to get the players to actually string a few passes together."

That's four successive managers they've been very poor under, bar good patches of form under Pardew and Allardyce. Anyone who thinks the players don't have any responsibility for the current mess must be in denial.
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  #145  
Old 12-09-2017, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Eaglesfan1 View Post
The lengths some will go to to defend the players is quite admirable.

Rubbish under Warnock: "A dinosaur. Manager suited to the championship etc"
Rubbish under Pardew after a good start: "Newcastle fans were right. Players unfit. Tactically rubbish, lets them off in training etc."
Starting and ending rubbish under Allardyce coinciding with good form when Sakho was in the team: "Pardew's mess. Confidence shattered." However, as we were losing these games with 30% possession the manager (deservedly) didn't come in for too much criticism.
4 poor games under de Boer: "Absolute rubbish. Has no achievements as a manager, Dutch league worse than the conference. Unreasonable to try to get the players to actually string a few passes together."

That's four successive managers they've been very poor under, bar good patches of form under Pardew and Allardyce. Anyone who thinks the players don't have any responsibility for the current mess must be in denial.
Excuse me...this isn't the thread for such a sensible post.
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  #146  
Old 12-09-2017, 11:46 AM
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Or maybe first team players who actually had a future at the club rather than some that are well past their sell by date and had been handed new contracts by the chairman?
Exactly. The ones who deserved to be in the XI. The issue is not player power, the issue is player power emanating from fringe players no longer good enough to wear the shirt. If the top players want to have player power I don't have a problem with it. The fringe players need to pipe down and let the manager choose the best XI. The likes of Delaney and Puncheon need to stop throwing their toys out of the pram when they are not picked.
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  #147  
Old 12-09-2017, 11:55 AM
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If we had a team of Joel Wards we wouldn't be in this mess.
we'd be in League 1
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  #148  
Old 12-09-2017, 11:57 AM
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The lengths some will go to to defend the players is quite admirable.

Rubbish under Warnock: "A dinosaur. Manager suited to the championship etc"
Rubbish under Pardew after a good start: "Newcastle fans were right. Players unfit. Tactically rubbish, lets them off in training etc."
Starting and ending rubbish under Allardyce coinciding with good form when Sakho was in the team: "Pardew's mess. Confidence shattered." However, as we were losing these games with 30% possession the manager (deservedly) didn't come in for too much criticism.
4 poor games under de Boer: "Absolute rubbish. Has no achievements as a manager, Dutch league worse than the conference. Unreasonable to try to get the players to actually string a few passes together."

That's four successive managers they've been very poor under, bar good patches of form under Pardew and Allardyce. Anyone who thinks the players don't have any responsibility for the current mess must be in denial.
I guess we'll never really find out but I wouldn't be surprised if FdB went to Parish early on and said something like 'half these players are absolute shite, they need to go'. Clash of egos from there on.

FdB may have come across as a bit of a dick but I guess all he wanted was a team to string some passes together and try and get the odd goal to maybe win a game. Instead he got 4-5 individual errors and the other teams took advantage.

Last edited by Georgie Boy; 12-09-2017 at 12:16 PM.
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  #149  
Old 12-09-2017, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by brighton_eagle View Post
I agree with all your points, but, seeing as it's the players that actually go out there and play football, they have to take some responsibility regardless of whether you believe these stories.
And these are the same players who have not performed, excepting an 8 game spell last season, since Christmas 2015. Three managers, same crappy results excepting one short spell with a stand out loan player.
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  #150  
Old 12-09-2017, 11:59 AM
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Why do people think Pardew got rid of Jedinak as soon as he could? He had a lot of influence in the dressing room and was disenchanted. Damo probably should have gone too. He certainly shouldn't have been offered a contract extension in the summer when we didn't have a manager. He's not going to feature so why extend his contract?
And, as it happened, turned out to have a point! Maybe if a few others had stood up to be counted, Pardew would have waved goodye after the FA cup final.
There will always be outspoken people in a dressing room. The manager needs to manage them. For all anybody knows, Damo may well have been the mouthpiece, but this could be on the back of many of the other players informing him of discontent. Until we get the definative story then it is all speculation.
I would also add that a lot of the players understand the culture of the club better than FDB. We have an identity- I don't understand the need to change it! And if this is on the back of a SP directive, then he should have backed the manager with players that know that system.
I don't blame any of the players- they are entitled to have opinions on the style of football they are being directed to play. I don't blame FDB- I thgink he was sold a complete pup.
I have (unlike many) never been publicly critical of SP. However, since BFS left, I think he has made a series of increasingly poor decisions.
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  #151  
Old 12-09-2017, 12:01 PM
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I find it odd that there is always a reason to blame the manager. FDB gets hammered for paying players out of position. Exactly who was that then? Played CYL in a wide position but he's seen as taking Lukas place? Was he not dropped for being poor and replaced by YC or JM? Haven't the defence played like conference defenders? Note that the defenders were actually defenders. Not midfielders playing total football. If this is a result of players moaning then they should go. Puncheon should be worried as maybe a new manager will realise how poor he's been and drop him. Let him whinge about that. People make so many excuses for this shower it is embarrassing. We haven't got the players to playing passing football? WTF! If that's the case then they should have a wage cut useless t****.
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  #152  
Old 12-09-2017, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Leopald Stotch View Post
And, as it happened, turned out to have a point! Maybe if a few others had stood up to be counted, Pardew would have waved goodye after the FA cup final.
There will always be outspoken people in a dressing room. The manager needs to manage them. For all anybody knows, Damo may well have been the mouthpiece, but this could be on the back of many of the other players informing him of discontent. Until we get the definative story then it is all speculation.
I would also add that a lot of the players understand the culture of the club better than FDB. We have an identity- I don't understand the need to change it! And if this is on the back of a SP directive, then he should have backed the manager with players that know that system.
I don't blame any of the players- they are entitled to have opinions on the style of football they are being directed to play. I don't blame FDB- I thgink he was sold a complete pup.
I have (unlike many) never been publicly critical of SP. However, since BFS left, I think he has made a series of increasingly poor decisions.
What.....understand the culture if the club. What is that then? Fighting relegation every year followed by a good season when we get promoted and then fighting relegation till we get relegated. Then going into liquidation and praying someone will save us. Playing tedious football with the odd good performance. Losing at home most weeks? Wow it's a good job FDB has gone wouldn't want him changing the club's culture and messing with our DNA. We resemble Sunderland right now. They had a rotten core. We seem to have too. They look in total disarray at present and I believe we are following them. SP is too willing to employ ex cpfc players who seem to see it as a jolly.

Last edited by Lombardo's hair; 12-09-2017 at 12:19 PM.
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  #153  
Old 12-09-2017, 12:18 PM
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We've got a very strong first 11, with strong back up at right back, left back, centre back and central midfield. We have limited cover up front (nothing), on the wing and in goal.

But any manager worth their salt should have got 5 points minimum from the four games we have started with. If FDB had of continued with the approach we had last season and gradually evolved it, I'm convinced we would have a minimum of 5 points now.

The manager is absolutely fundamental in applying a system, formation and tactical approach. FDB was all over the place. He really wasn't impressive at all.
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  #154  
Old 12-09-2017, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Lombardo's hair View Post
What.....understand the culture if the club. What is that then? Fighting relegation every year followed by a good season when we get promoted and then fighting relegation till we get relegated. Then going into liquidation and praying someone will save us. Playing tedious football with the odd good performance. Losing at home most weeks? Wow it's a good job FDB has gone wouldn't want him changing the club's culture and messing with our DNA. We resemble Sunderland right now. They had a rotten core. We seem to have too. They look in total disarray at present and I believe we are following them. SP is too willing to employ ex cpfc players who seem to see it as a jolly.
You seem to be confusing 'culture' with 'performance'.

For your benifit,

Culture. noun the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society

I would suggest the history you have detailed has more to do with a succesion of poor management appointments. I would support this by suggesting that in the same time period, you should look at our performance under certain mangers who seemed to be able to motivate the same group of players to perform.
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  #155  
Old 12-09-2017, 12:29 PM
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We've got a very strong first 11, with strong back up at right back, left back, centre back and central midfield. We have limited cover up front (nothing), on the wing and in goal.

But any manager worth their salt should have got 5 points minimum from the four games we have started with. If FDB had of continued with the approach we had last season and gradually evolved it, I'm convinced we would have a minimum of 5 points now.

The manager is absolutely fundamental in applying a system, formation and tactical approach. FDB was all over the place. He really wasn't impressive at all.
Allardyce averaged 0.77 points per game without Sakho. Would he be good enough? What about Pardew who averaged .88 points per game last season? This idea, that some un-named manager would stroll in and get this bunch actually playing winning football is belied by the actual results (excepting a short spell last season) from the last 21 months.

Sam, who did a good job for us, talked openly of how this group of players did not listen or follow his instructions until after the Sunderland loss. That's seven league games where, in essence, they ignored him.

That tells me, that irrespective of the qualities (or lack of them) of FdB, there are far deeper issues in the team and squad.
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  #156  
Old 12-09-2017, 12:34 PM
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So De Boer plays a system that my 1 year old know wont work with the players we have. Loses 3 nothing to Huddesfield at home. Then does it again. Plays players out of position. Plays Lee instead of Luka. Puncheon plays every week despite being so short of confidence he looks about league 1.

Parish hires a manager and doesnt back him at all. Then sacks him after the only half decent performance. Goes to Ashton and Maylon to spread unrest in the media over De Boers futures. Approaches Hogdson several days ago.

Between them they dont sign a keeper despite our current number 1 being the worst in the top 2 divisions. Start the season with 1 senior striker.

The whole thing is a total farce and a catalogue of errors yet people are blaming the players? Laughable.

Has Gilsey been on yet to tell us a very good 'source' tells him it was Delaney at fault?
I know Chungy is shit, but his error Sunday should still be blamed on a player...
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  #157  
Old 12-09-2017, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Leopald Stotch View Post
You seem to be confusing 'culture' with 'performance'.

For your benifit,

Culture. noun the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society

I would suggest the history you have detailed has more to do with a succesion of poor management appointments. I would support this by suggesting that in the same time period, you should look at our performance under certain mangers who seemed to be able to motivate the same group of players to perform.
I do not need a n explanation of culture. Please explain what the club's culture is if it isn't the team. Is it the fan base? Is it it's involvement in the community. Having social events. Because I an bemused. The only culture I see is a team that underperforms anfd doesn't like innovation. The culture if a spoilt lazy incompetent generation. What is our culture please educate me1
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  #158  
Old 12-09-2017, 12:35 PM
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FWIW I think we're still suffering from a hangover from the pardew era.

Look how long it's taken Newcastle to recover. Had to get relegated and still havent got rid of all the dross.
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Old 12-09-2017, 12:37 PM
jimmy the gent jimmy the gent is offline
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Originally Posted by NickinOx View Post
Allardyce averaged 0.77 points per game without Sakho. Would he be good enough? What about Pardew who averaged .88 points per game last season? This idea, that some un-named manager would stroll in and get this bunch actually playing winning football is belied by the actual results (excepting a short spell last season) from the last 21 months.

Sam, who did a good job for us, talked openly of how this group of players did not listen or follow his instructions until after the Sunderland loss. That's seven league games where, in essence, they ignored him.

That tells me, that irrespective of the qualities (or lack of them) of FdB, there are far deeper issues in the team and squad.
The squad is a mess largely due to us having changed manager every five minutes for the last 6 years. It's what was so disappointing about Sam leaving, i really thought he was the strong leader we needed to kick the squad into shape. Seems to me that bringing in Dougie, who no doubt is close to Ward, Delaney and perhaps some of their clique, would only empower that group. Quite why their concerns are being given such credence is beyond me, give they are fringe squad players at best.

I'm behind the Roy appointment, but he certainly isnt the strong long term leader we need. Just another stop-gap, and the only realistic sensible one i can see. having paid off de boer's handsome contract, i cant see the club paying another club to poach an employed manager, anyway.
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Old 12-09-2017, 12:38 PM
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I agree with all your points, but, seeing as it's the players that actually go out there and play football, they have to take some responsibility regardless of whether you believe these stories.
Too true
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