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  #201  
Old 13-03-2018, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Kidofwonder View Post
This study was done be a "mens rights" group

Also the stats they use don't identify the sex of the aggressors at all, they just say "Over 40% of the victims are men".

You're reading it exactly how they want you to, but it doesn't say what you're saying it does anywhere in there.

It also presents the problems of men as womens fault, rather than the fault of other men.
Did you miss this bit whilst doing your best to discredit the figures due to the source?

“Data from Home Office statistical bulletins and the British Crime Survey show that men made up about 40% of domestic violence victims each year between 2004-05 and 2008-09, the last year for which figures are available. In 2006-07 men made up 43.4% of all those who had suffered partner abuse in the previous year, which rose to 45.5% in 2007-08 but fell to 37.7% in 2008-09.”

Come to think of it, did you even bother to read the links?
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  #202  
Old 13-03-2018, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
You mean the truth we do know who did this and everyone should be treated equally and it should not be hidden or held back by social services or the police.The priority should be the children.

So you would prefer this to be hidden?

Just by the reactions from people like you I can see why this has happened and will happen again because you are more worried about offending the rapists.
I think the focus now has to be on the children, the police and social services failures. Just sending the c**ts responsible to jail isn't enough. As those responsible are imprisoned, the key becomes ensuring that it cannot happen again and that funding, resourcing, policies and procedures are in place to prevent a new generation of 'c**ts' filling the gap.
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  #203  
Old 13-03-2018, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
You mean the truth we do know who did this and everyone should be treated equally and it should not be hidden or held back by social services or the police.The priority should be the children.

So you would prefer this to be hidden?

Just by the reactions from people like you I can see why this has happened and will happen again because you are more worried about offending the rapists.
Well said, especially the last paragraph.
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  #204  
Old 13-03-2018, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidofwonder View Post
This study was done be a "mens rights" group

Also the stats they use don't identify the sex of the aggressors at all, they just say "Over 40% of the victims are men".

You're reading it exactly how they want you to, but it doesn't say what you're saying it does anywhere in there.

It also presents the problems of men as womens fault, rather than the fault of other men.
So you think that whilst men make up 40% of the abused, women only commit 6% of attacks?
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  #205  
Old 13-03-2018, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
An interesting paradox of domestic violence is that men are more likely as a percentage, to experience violence in a relationship, from a woman, but that acts of domestic violence that result in police attention, hospitalisation etc were almost exclusively male perpetrated offences.
See post 178
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  #206  
Old 13-03-2018, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
You mean the truth we do know who did this and everyone should be treated equally and it should not be hidden or held back by social services or the police.The priority should be the children.

So you would prefer this to be hidden?

Just by the reactions from people like you I can see why this has happened and will happen again because you are more worried about offending the rapists.
Agreed.
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  #207  
Old 13-03-2018, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by garronrav View Post
Well said, especially the last paragraph.
I just think have we been so brainwashed not to offend?

Even me,kidofnotmuchwonder even picked up that I was skirting not saying openly trying to be polite who the actual gangs were.

If you were talking about one bloke raping a kid or ten blokes raping kids I would not be having this conversation but it comes out that hundreds were abused and raped by ethnic gangs in many communities up and down the country since the 80's.

Police and the social services have been ignoring/covering it up and it has to be dealt with not hidden.

That did not work did it unless you think sacrificing more children is worth it?

I just want these bastards stopped and keeping them hidden so not upset people like Kid is not the way to go as we now know.

I think all communities up and down the country would be only too pleased to have kids protected from these bastards once and for all.
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  #208  
Old 13-03-2018, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Blind_Eagle View Post
Did you miss this bit whilst doing your best to discredit the figures due to the source?

“Data from Home Office statistical bulletins and the British Crime Survey show that men made up about 40% of domestic violence victims each year between 2004-05 and 2008-09, the last year for which figures are available. In 2006-07 men made up 43.4% of all those who had suffered partner abuse in the previous year, which rose to 45.5% in 2007-08 but fell to 37.7% in 2008-09.”

Come to think of it, did you even bother to read the links?
but on my original point, the stats show no correlation to sex of attacker.
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  #209  
Old 13-03-2018, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by bhcp View Post
So you think that whilst men make up 40% of the abused, women only commit 6% of attacks?
If that wasn't the case, why would it not be highlighted in the article?
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  #210  
Old 13-03-2018, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
You mean the truth we do know who did this and everyone should be treated equally and it should not be hidden or held back by social services or the police.The priority should be the children.

So you would prefer this to be hidden?

Just by the reactions from people like you I can see why this has happened and will happen again because you are more worried about offending the rapists.

Absolute cobblers.
I wouldnt prefer it to be hidden. I want it dealt with. But there will always those that use it for their own agenda, including some newspapers.
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  #211  
Old 13-03-2018, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
It was British Asian gangs up and down the country, what is wrong with you?

It's not racist to say what is widely known in newspapers and its a problem that has to be dealt with for everyone's children's sake and I mean everyone's.
I didn't say it was racist to say that it was British Asian groups, I don't think it is racist because that's what the data suggests, however many people in this thread are making the false equivalence of "Asian = Muslim".

It's fair enough to suggest that there seems to be an issue, according to the data, in certain British-Asian communities where groups of men are taking advantage of vulnerable young girls.

We have to tackle that and we have to stop these girls becoming vulnerable in the first place and thats as much a problem with child services,the police e.t.c as Dogstar has so eloquently and informatively highlighted.

There's lots of chest thumping and saying something must be done! in this thread, but most are completley ignoring the largely constructive suggestions from the likes of Dogstar of how we institutionally tackle this problem in favour of all the usual right wingers wanting to go after muslims

Also as soon as its suggested this isn't a problem specifically for muslim or asian men to generally mens attitudes towards woman, those same people yell "NOT ALL MEN" and "what about men"

I 100% agree with you that if you want to solve this problem, you can't look for easy solution and you can't be afraid to interrogate or investigate any individual whatever background they are from.

Conversely I think the majority of the people in this thread aren't prepared to do that when it gets a bit too close to home and it's easier to say "oh its a muslim problem" or "oh it's a British Asian problem" or "oh look at special treatment,that's why we have racism!" rather than begin to look at how various attitudes across a wide sector of British society, if you're intent on highlighting the "British-Asian" element, lets give the first bit equal weight as the second, that British police and British child services are failing British children, when British men abuse them.
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  #212  
Old 13-03-2018, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Kidofwonder View Post
I didn't say it was racist to say that it was British Asian groups, I don't think it is racist because that's what the data suggests, however many people in this thread are making the false equivalence of "Asian = Muslim".

It's fair enough to suggest that there seems to be an issue, according to the data, in certain British-Asian communities where groups of men are taking advantage of vulnerable young girls.

We have to tackle that and we have to stop these girls becoming vulnerable in the first place and thats as much a problem with child services,the police e.t.c as Dogstar has so eloquently and informatively highlighted.

There's lots of chest thumping and saying something must be done! in this thread, but most are completley ignoring the largely constructive suggestions from the likes of Dogstar of how we institutionally tackle this problem in favour of all the usual right wingers wanting to go after muslims

Also as soon as its suggested this isn't a problem specifically for muslim or asian men to generally mens attitudes towards woman, those same people yell "NOT ALL MEN" and "what about men"

I 100% agree with you that if you want to solve this problem, you can't look for easy solution and you can't be afraid to interrogate or investigate any individual whatever background they are from.

Conversely I think the majority of the people in this thread aren't prepared to do that when it gets a bit too close to home and it's easier to say "oh its a muslim problem" or "oh it's a British Asian problem" or "oh look at special treatment,that's why we have racism!" rather than begin to look at how various attitudes across a wide sector of British society, if you're intent on highlighting the "British-Asian" element, lets give the first bit equal weight as the second, that British police and British child services are failing British children, when British men abuse them.

Data says this data says that...It suggests?

Are you a computer?

So far as you usually do you have as per normal not read any of the posts, who the feck do you think people are talking about when we say Police and social workers, from Hong Kong?

Nope, there has been no chest thumping its disgust that so many people feel that this has been ignored and so many children have been brushed under the carpet abused/raped because of your kind of thinking where you are so desperately trying not to offend you have lost perspective of what we are actually talking about and defending..Which is how to protect all the kids.

That's not data, is this just a debating thing for you where you really do not care about the subject?
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  #213  
Old 13-03-2018, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Kidofwonder View Post
I didn't say it was racist to say that it was British Asian groups, I don't think it is racist because that's what the data suggests, however many people in this thread are making the false equivalence of "Asian = Muslim".

It's fair enough to suggest that there seems to be an issue, according to the data, in certain British-Asian communities where groups of men are taking advantage of vulnerable young girls.

We have to tackle that and we have to stop these girls becoming vulnerable in the first place and thats as much a problem with child services,the police e.t.c as Dogstar has so eloquently and informatively highlighted.

There's lots of chest thumping and saying something must be done! in this thread, but most are completley ignoring the largely constructive suggestions from the likes of Dogstar of how we institutionally tackle this problem in favour of all the usual right wingers wanting to go after muslims

Also as soon as its suggested this isn't a problem specifically for muslim or asian men to generally mens attitudes towards woman, those same people yell "NOT ALL MEN" and "what about men"

I 100% agree with you that if you want to solve this problem, you can't look for easy solution and you can't be afraid to interrogate or investigate any individual whatever background they are from.

Conversely I think the majority of the people in this thread aren't prepared to do that when it gets a bit too close to home and it's easier to say "oh its a muslim problem" or "oh it's a British Asian problem" or "oh look at special treatment,that's why we have racism!" rather than begin to look at how various attitudes across a wide sector of British society, if you're intent on highlighting the "British-Asian" element, lets give the first bit equal weight as the second, that British police and British child services are failing British children, when British men abuse them.
Still not getting you kid. Its a lot of words but it doesnt say very much i am afraid.
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  #214  
Old 13-03-2018, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by nickgusset View Post
Absolute cobblers.
I wouldnt prefer it to be hidden. I want it dealt with. But there will always those that use it for their own agenda, including some newspapers.
Yes, so you protect the minority racists by hiding them over the actual crime.

Good thinking.

In 20 years we can do this again and talk about even more children that are being abused because of fear of offending or being labelled a racist rather than talk about why and how to stop it.

It's weird how your priorities are.
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  #215  
Old 13-03-2018, 02:48 PM
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So you think that whilst men make up 40% of the abused, women only commit 6% of attacks?
Gay men can abuse their partners too you know. You seem to be assuming that all these male victims were abused by women - the article appears to make no such distinction - talking generally about partners.
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  #216  
Old 13-03-2018, 02:49 PM
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Gay men can abuse their partners too you know. You seem to be assuming that all these male victims were abused by women - the article appears to make no such distinction - talking generally about partners.
I know they can. They must be extremely prolific at it if those stats are true.
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  #217  
Old 13-03-2018, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
I just think have we been so brainwashed not to offend?

Even me,kidofnotmuchwonder even picked up that I was skirting not saying openly trying to be polite who the actual gangs were.

If you were talking about one bloke raping a kid or ten blokes raping kids I would not be having this conversation but it comes out that hundreds were abused and raped by ethnic gangs in many communities up and down the country since the 80's.

Police and the social services have been ignoring/covering it up and it has to be dealt with not hidden.

That did not work did it unless you think sacrificing more children is worth it?

I just want these bastards stopped and keeping them hidden so not upset people like Kid is not the way to go as we now know.

I think all communities up and down the country would be only too pleased to have kids protected from these bastards once and for all.

Lesley I thought we weren't meant to call each other names.
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  #218  
Old 13-03-2018, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
Yes, so you protect the minority racists by hiding them over the actual crime.

Good thinking.

In 20 years we can do this again and talk about even more children that are being abused because of fear of offending or being labelled a racist rather than talk about why and how to stop it.

It's weird how your priorities are.
Or equally, we could say that we're dealing with the same problem again because police focus was entirely on the Muslim community, because the vast majority of grooming gangs are 'Asian / Muslim' - and thus missed the fact that not all of them were. The focus on rightly, eliminating the problem cannot just focus on singular aspects. Otherwise what will happen is that other groups of nonces will fill the gaps.

An important aspect of these crimes is that these people were pimping these girls out. Underage prostitution and paedophile rings aren't an exclusively racial or ethnic thing. Nor are they a new issue or problem either. There are those who are involved because its profitable, those who are in it for the sex and those who in it to specifically fulfil sexual deviancy.

Without focusing on why its almost always vulnerable, at risk girls, being exploited by men, and missed by law enforcement and social services - We'll end up back here, probably with a different 'demographic marker'.

Same as Yewtree shows with the 60s and 70s, and the Care Home cases of the 80s and 90s - Child sex offenders gravitate towards access to victims. Predators and 'Successful' offenders, gravitate towards establishing networks of abuse. The rise of the internet and social media is going to make that contact and those networks more prolific and wider.

We should most definitely mention ethnicity, because in these instances its relevant. We should however be very careful as defining these offences along specific ethnic lines only.
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  #219  
Old 13-03-2018, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
Or equally, we could say that we're dealing with the same problem again because police focus was entirely on the Muslim community, because the vast majority of grooming gangs are 'Asian / Muslim' - and thus missed the fact that not all of them were. The focus on rightly, eliminating the problem cannot just focus on singular aspects. Otherwise what will happen is that other groups of nonces will fill the gaps.

An important aspect of these crimes is that these people were pimping these girls out. Underage prostitution and paedophile rings aren't an exclusively racial or ethnic thing. Nor are they a new issue or problem either. There are those who are involved because its profitable, those who are in it for the sex and those who in it to specifically fulfil sexual deviancy.

Without focusing on why its almost always vulnerable, at risk girls, being exploited by men, and missed by law enforcement and social services - We'll end up back here, probably with a different 'demographic marker'.

Same as Yewtree shows with the 60s and 70s, and the Care Home cases of the 80s and 90s - Child sex offenders gravitate towards access to victims. Predators and 'Successful' offenders, gravitate towards establishing networks of abuse. The rise of the internet and social media is going to make that contact and those networks more prolific and wider.

We should most definitely mention ethnicity, because in these instances its relevant. We should however be very careful as defining these offences along specific ethnic lines only.
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Old 13-03-2018, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Les Butler View Post
I just think have we been so brainwashed not to offend?

Even me,kidofnotmuchwonder even picked up that I was skirting not saying openly trying to be polite who the actual gangs were.

If you were talking about one bloke raping a kid or ten blokes raping kids I would not be having this conversation but it comes out that hundreds were abused and raped by ethnic gangs in many communities up and down the country since the 80's.

Police and the social services have been ignoring/covering it up and it has to be dealt with not hidden.
Good post.
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