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  #61  
Old 12-03-2018, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mayfield View Post
Depends what you mean when you say "these crimes".

It was definitely relevant during the S.Lawrence saga, wasn't it? So it should be relevant also for these particular cases where it was brushed under the carpet by police and local authorities because of the skin colours of the victims and the skin colours of the perpetrators.
I suspect that the police were very happy for it to be labelled a failing of police due to racism, because it almost certainly had far more to do with corruption in the Metropolitan Police force. Just a coincidence that David Norris managed to avoid conviction, whilst being the son of a notorious crime boss (Clifford Norris) - and that several officers serving in the Met during this time have lost their jobs and even been sent to prison in relationship to corrupt dealings, with Clifford Norris.

Officers who also seem to have relationships with the Daniel Morgan murder case.

Its better for the Met to be seen as 'institutionally Racist' than being riddled with corruption throughout its ranks.

The police have never been scared of being called racist.
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  #62  
Old 12-03-2018, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Vince Hilaire's Afro View Post
What makes you think there isn't any coverage or vilification of white paedophiles?
Not saying there isn't, but there in my view a big difference in the amount of coverage.
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  #63  
Old 12-03-2018, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by nickgusset View Post
Not saying there isn't, but there in my view a big difference in the amount of coverage.
Is it your expectation that a case of a single paedophile will attract as much media attention as paedophile ring?

Scandals such as Yewtree (albeit involving many celebrities) and those of the Catholic Church, youth instituitions etc involving largely white perpetrators received widespread coverage.

It seems more likely to me that it's not the level of coverage where the disparity lies, it's your sensitivity towards it.
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  #64  
Old 12-03-2018, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by nickgusset View Post
Not saying there isn't, but there in my view a big difference in the amount of coverage.
I think that's true. When we had the 'Catholic' priest abuse scandals, no one was really suggesting that it was explicitly a problem of Catholicism or with the Catholic Church somehow being responsible for the production of child sex offenders.

Of course there is a problem with these gangs, and their relationship specifically to Muslim perpetrators. That said, an element that tends to be underreported on is how these groups are a organised crime network, and utilise children for sex both within and outside their immediate circle for financial gains - and here in this cycle there tends to be a much less specific definition of racial or ethnic demographic based on religion and ethnicity.

These groups flourished because they were ignored. Same as how organised crime functions; it fulfils vice demand in societies, typically through illegal means, by identifying demand, and fulfilling control of supply.

But there is a specific danger in focusing on 'Asian' demographics, and that's because only around 10% of child sex offences, relate to this type of crime (grooming gangs). Outside of that, child sex abuse cases are dominated by white offenders (who don't tend to be part of those grooming networks these days - and I suspect might also be on the periphery of those networks as 'purchasers of services').

Also, this might be why child sex offences outside of grooming gangs are dominated by white ethnicity, because individuals are drawn into these gangs or purchase sex from these gangs, rather than target abuse within their own personal networks.
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  #65  
Old 12-03-2018, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by nickgusset View Post
BS.
Quality reply.
You clearly want to make this about politics rather than focus on the victims or the causes. Gangs of Asians rape dozens of girls in various towns and all you want to say is that it would get different coverage if they were white? But they aren't white are they and I've never heard of organised gangs of dozens of white men in a dozen towns raping dozens of girls. The sheer scale of it is shocking and there is no precedent for it.
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  #66  
Old 12-03-2018, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
I think that's true. When we had the 'Catholic' priest abuse scandals, no one was really suggesting that it was explicitly a problem of Catholicism or with the Catholic Church somehow being responsible for the production of child sex offenders.
Really?
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  #67  
Old 12-03-2018, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Vince Hilaire's Afro View Post
Is it your expectation that a case of a single paedophile will attract as much media attention as paedophile ring?

Scandals such as Yewtree (albeit involving many celebrities) and those of the Catholic Church, youth instituitions etc involving largely white perpetrators received widespread coverage.

It seems more likely to me that it's not the level of coverage where the disparity lies, it's your sensitivity towards it.
I think its more that society keeps finding ways to avoid dealing with the problem, by focusing entirely on ethnicity, rather than consider that the problem here has always been how the most vulnerable children in society are being failed decade on decade, and everyone just accepts the excuse of the day rather than actually doing something about child services.
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  #68  
Old 12-03-2018, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by SOUTHGATE EAGLE View Post
The other, scary thing is that if it took so many years for this atrocity to become public, then how many more are still likely to come to light / be happening right now? Chances are this is the tip of the iceberg.
The scary thing is... some that raised concerns were sent for "diversity training". I'd like to see criminal charges for those in power that failed to act.

It's my opinion that there was many failures that allowed this to continue... incompetence/scared of being labelled racists/perception of the victims.
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  #69  
Old 12-03-2018, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
I think its more that society keeps finding ways to avoid dealing with the problem, by focusing entirely on ethnicity, rather than consider that the problem here has always been how the most vulnerable children in society are being failed decade on decade, and everyone just accepts the excuse of the day rather than actually doing something about child services.
Again, I am somewhat at a loss as to why you think this.
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  #70  
Old 12-03-2018, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by VAR View Post
Quality reply.
You clearly want to make this about politics rather than focus on the victims or the causes. Gangs of Asians rape dozens of girls in various towns and all you want to say is that it would get different coverage if they were white? But they aren't white are they and I've never heard of organised gangs of dozens of white men in a dozen towns raping dozens of girls. The sheer scale of it is shocking and there is no precedent for it.
It's ******* horrible, I'm not saying it isn't.

And rather than me politicizing it, I'm pointing out that others do.
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  #71  
Old 12-03-2018, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Vince Hilaire's Afro View Post
Really?
Yeah, I don't think anyone was scoring political or sectarian points on it, to pursue anti-Catholic policy in the same way (the DUP a-likes maybe) that we see child grooming sex offences linked to immigration (and politicised by the far right).

Its tragic we get hung up on the ethnicity of the offender, and not the complete failure of public services to the victims (who typically have all been in care or on the periphery of the care system).

And this should be a concern, because where systemic abuse, focused around rings of offenders occurs, its always this group who seem to be targeted repeatedly. How can it be that children in care are more likely to end up the victims of child sex offenders decade on decade, unless that public service is failing and nothing is really being done about it.
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  #72  
Old 12-03-2018, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
I think its more that society keeps finding ways to avoid dealing with the problem, by focusing entirely on ethnicity, rather than consider that the problem here has always been how the most vulnerable children in society are being failed decade on decade, and everyone just accepts the excuse of the day rather than actually doing something about child services.
So when Asian grooming gangs or Catholic priests commit rape it's the fault of child services?
I think not. Their incompetence might allow it to go unnoticed but the problem is with the culture of the predators. The church and the immigrants get away with it for the same reason, because they are protected by a lobby of apologists.
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  #73  
Old 12-03-2018, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by nickgusset View Post
It's ******* horrible, I'm not saying it isn't.

And rather than me politicizing it, I'm pointing out that others do.
No. You are politicising it by taking issue with the coverage. Most normal thinking people would see that there is a problem in the Asian community and want to deal with it to protect girls from abuse. You are more interested in implying prejudice against Asians which suggests that you care more about the Asian criminals than the victims. Now that is prejudice in action.
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  #74  
Old 12-03-2018, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
I think its more that society keeps finding ways to avoid dealing with the problem, by focusing entirely on ethnicity, rather than consider that the problem here has always been how the most vulnerable children in society are being failed decade on decade, and everyone just accepts the excuse of the day rather than actually doing something about child services.
Thats a bit of a poor cop out from you.
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Old 12-03-2018, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by VAR View Post
So when Asian grooming gangs or Catholic priests commit rape it's the fault of child services?
I think not. Their incompetence might allow it to go unnoticed but the problem is with the culture of the predators. The church and the immigrants get away with it for the same reason, because they are protected by a lobby of apologists.
You are right - Child services are not responsible for a culture of predators going unnoticed in the same way that organised religion / immigrants are also not responsible.
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  #76  
Old 12-03-2018, 12:57 PM
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No. You are politicising it by taking issue with the coverage. Most normal thinking people would see that there is a problem in the Asian community and want to deal with it to protect girls from abuse. You are more interested in implying prejudice against Asians which suggests that you care more about the Asian criminals than the victims. Now that is prejudice in action.
Absolutely not.

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  #77  
Old 12-03-2018, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Vince Hilaire's Afro View Post
Is it your expectation that a case of a single paedophile will attract as much media attention as paedophile ring?

Scandals such as Yewtree (albeit involving many celebrities) and those of the Catholic Church, youth instituitions etc involving largely white perpetrators received widespread coverage.

It seems more likely to me that it's not the level of coverage where the disparity lies, it's your sensitivity towards it.
yes, It's not that there isn't coverage or vilification of White peadophiles, it's that white peadophiles are just called "peadophiles" where as Asian peadophiles will be called "ASAIN peadophiles"
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  #78  
Old 12-03-2018, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Vince Hilaire's Afro View Post
Again, I am somewhat at a loss as to why you think this.
The history of abuse in child care services is pretty well documented and established. Time and again the victims of sex offending gangs (and individuals) have been those in care. We saw it with Savile and people in his circle of offending, the 70s and 80s care home child sex scandals as well as with grooming gangs. Usually, when you get groups of offenders, its always vulnerable children, and children in care, who are the primary target group.

Same with the Rotherham cases etc. Its once again, vulnerable children in the protection of social services, that are targeted and 'pimped' out. We keep, as a society, kidding ourselves that the problem is just with the offender, or group y in society - but the problem has been decade on decade, that its those that state has undertaken to protect, that are once again the victims here.
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  #79  
Old 12-03-2018, 01:14 PM
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There's quite obviously a culture of abuse in certain sectors of life and if we go about making this about X,Y or Z we don't deal with the issue of protecting young people.

The data seems to split the abuse into two categories, Those who abuse people because they are vulnerable and those who seek out to abuse people because of a sexual interest in those who are underage.

I think that's an interesting distinction to make because I think it helps us think of how to tackle the problem more.

I also think the first group, those who target vulnerable people is far more complex than some meathead deciding to go around shouting nonce at any POC with a beard.

For example, I overheard a conversation on the bus the other day where someone was talking about how their 17 year old sister has been sleeping with guys since she was 14 and how even her own dad was calling her a "slag"

Clearly in cases like the first group, that girl would be vulnerable, because she is likely putting herself into situations where she could be taken advantage of by men and the worst part is, her not think anything of it and her most obvious support network, her family, just writing her off.

The thinking needs to become much more joined up and it has to be as much about stopping children and young people becoming cut off and vulnerable as stamping out cultures of abuses in different sectors of society.

A thing someone suggested is that if you break down the numbers of Asain men involved in these incidences into their professions, they thought you would find a great deal of those involved would work in industries where they had access to vulnerable people, such as Taxi Drivers and other such things related to the night time economy. I haven't seen any data to prove or disprove that, but it does mention in the Mirror piece that at least one or two of those cases the accused was a cabbie.

There's a whole complex myriad of things to investigate and explore and make better and it's not just a case of blaming one group or another in society, but it's understanding how to work with those groups in order to tackle the abusive element within them, whilst investing in child services and things for kids to do, to avoid them becoming vulnerable or falling into the traps.
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Old 12-03-2018, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Kidofwonder View Post
yes, It's not that there isn't coverage or vilification of White peadophiles, it's that white peadophiles are just called "peadophiles" where as Asian peadophiles will be called "ASAIN peadophiles"
Is it not common practice to prefix 'gangs' or groups of people?

For instance, if a gang of Eastern Europeans are human trafficking, it's not referenced merely as a human trafficking gang. If a group of Catholic priests are abusing children, they're not referenced generically as clergymen, they're referenced as 'catholic priests'.

Is it due to a desire to fan prejudice and hate, or is it merely standard protocol to facilitate context (however lazily)?
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