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  #301  
Old 11-12-2017, 08:42 AM
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Barbers response.
A quick precis - "We know best"

There we are, that's all sorted then
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  #302  
Old 11-12-2017, 08:53 AM
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has any evidence been provided for the ticketless fans suggestion ? Genuine question
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  #303  
Old 11-12-2017, 09:06 AM
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His main focus is on retaining their "classy" reputation.
Did he not closed the Brighton turnstiles, or did he let in their Herbert's ,hanging around for Palace stragglers ?
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  #304  
Old 11-12-2017, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by eaglejez View Post
has any evidence been provided for the ticketless fans suggestion ? Genuine question
I'm not sure there has been any evidence produced that any of the fans there were ticketless, so far at least

It's just a statement that the Police and Br*ghton keep repeating
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  #305  
Old 11-12-2017, 09:13 AM
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I'm not sure there has been any evidence produced that any of the fans there were ticketless, so far at least

It's just a statement that the Police and Br*ghton keep repeating
That is true - it is entirely possible that at least some of those fans that jumped the barriers were fans with tickets desperate to actually get in having been delayed by the Police action from actually getting there at a reasonable time.
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  #306  
Old 11-12-2017, 09:20 AM
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I'm not sure there has been any evidence produced that any of the fans there were ticketless, so far at least

It's just a statement that the Police and Br*ghton keep repeating
It's based on the notion that, unless you prove you have a ticket and the ticket is checked by staff, you could be ticketless. I can somewhat understand that logic.

However, the police assertion that it was a large number of fans is something we are challenging. If it's a large number, then quantify it. Prove it to us.
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  #307  
Old 11-12-2017, 09:27 AM
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Liverpool let flares off there last week too. I assume they'll be limited to 2,000 tickets next time they play there
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  #308  
Old 11-12-2017, 09:30 AM
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Liverpool let flares off there last week too. I assume they'll be limited to 2,000 tickets next time they play there
Nah, They will have at least 10,000, its just most of them own a ST!
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  #309  
Old 11-12-2017, 09:30 AM
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Liverpool let flares off there last week too. I assume they'll be limited to 2,000 tickets next time they play there
Wouldn't that punish thousands of BHAFC ticket holders? YNWA wouldn't be the same.
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  #310  
Old 11-12-2017, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by sw16girl View Post
That is true - it is entirely possible that at least some of those fans that jumped the barriers were fans with tickets desperate to actually get in having been delayed by the Police action from actually getting there at a reasonable time.
Im sure Ive read a post on the BBS from someone who did exactly that. He said he had a ticket, but when the door opened and others went through it, he went with the flow. He was indeed fed up with being stuck outside and wanted to see the match.

My guess is that Brighton/police assumed these fans were ticketless. Maybe a few were, but its pretty hard to prove it.
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  #311  
Old 11-12-2017, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris K View Post
Liverpool let flares off there last week too. I assume they'll be limited to 2,000 tickets next time they play there
According to their website they had 3,000 tickets last week.

As you say, I bet they wont have that reduced next time.
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  #312  
Old 11-12-2017, 09:45 AM
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Barber seems to be saying that it was the police that made up the knuckle dusters and knives story, while the police have said it was Brighton. It's now over to the police to show exactly where their lies came from.

If he thinks CCTV clears Brighton on the 'ticketless' fans incidents, he should show the footage in public. I'd like to see how he can deduce that Palace fans planned a diversionary tactic with bangers for a start. CCTV isn't likely to have sound of the quality needed to pick up individual conversations in a noisy atmosphere.
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  #313  
Old 11-12-2017, 09:48 AM
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Clearly, given the lies told about weapons, the credibility of the ticketless fans allegation is severely weakened. We must press Sussex Police through FOI to reveal what evidence the claims were based on. I also note Barber's use of the weasel words about taking police claims about weapons at face value. That doesn't really wash as the Police were claiming that they were found inside his club's ground. However, he does say that they did immediately draw the Police's attention to the "inaccuracies" (aka lies) in the statement once they learned of them. Another FOI question asking when BHA drew the "inaccuracies" to their attention?
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  #314  
Old 11-12-2017, 09:53 AM
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I find his comments about the cup fixture interesting. In paragraphs 2 and 3 he suggests there's no way we can have a full allocation because we've been naughty boys in the past. Yet further down he mentions it is due to there not being a full train service and that his state of the art stadium couldn't possibly cope with 40 or 50 coaches.

Here is the letter in full, published in the Argus today:

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Mr Guile has asserted (The Argus, 6 December 2017) that Crystal Palace supporters should not receive tickets for the FA Cup match in January. Sadly, it isn’t as simple as this. A number of the individuals (from both sides) that caused trouble in the city and outside the stadium didn’t have tickets to last week’s game, so banning visiting supporters from receiving tickets doesn’t necessarily prevent disorder. And what of the away fans who came to watch the match and caused no trouble at all?

Contrary to Mr Guile’s suggestion, Brighton & Hove Albion would much prefer to be in a position to grant Crystal Palace supporters their full ticket allocation. It would make for a better atmosphere in the stadium and, from a business point of view, it would likely lead to a bigger overall attendance at the match, and increase revenue for the club. Sadly, given the mindless behaviour of a minority outside the stadium during our last meeting, granting a full allocation of tickets to our visitors simply isn’t possible and the Safety Advisory Group are once again likely to set a limit of approximately 2000 - the number agreed for away fans at BOTH league fixtures (and, now, any potential FA Cup replay).

There’s been a huge amount of rhetoric leading up to and since the match, and a range of claims and counter-claims, including from many who didn’t attend the match or who have chosen to comment without checking the facts, but let’s not lose sight of the reason for the restriction on tickets, and the root of the problem: the mindless minority who seek to cause trouble - both at the recent fixture, and on occasions in the past. Nobody else.

I am genuinely very sorry that due to the actions of these tiny factions, those individuals who chose to disregard the law, a large number of away supporters of both clubs will miss the opportunity to support their teams across the fixtures between the clubs both at the Amex and Selhurst Park this season.

It is also very disappointing that in the immediate aftermath of the league meeting between the clubs much of the disorder has been misrepresented, not least on social media. Yes, there was some serious disorder outside the stadium and in areas of the city, and it did lead to a number of injuries to stewards and police - as well as to some entirely innocent fans, with tickets, missing some or all of the match, as a direct result of the disorder. But it is extremely disappointing and entirely wrong that our club’s integrity or actions have been called into question as a result, and that the reputation of Crystal Palace and their supporters has been further tarnished as a result.

To be clear, the original Sussex Police statement on fan-related disturbances was released without our approval - but we trusted it and took it at face value. However, when we learned of the inaccuracies contained within the statement, we drew them to the attention of Sussex Police immediately. We have since made very clear, and in the strongest possible terms, our extreme disappointment with various communications from Sussex Police leading up to, immediately after, and since Crystal Palace’s visit to the Amex. These protests led to Sussex Police issuing a clarifying statement late on Thursday afternoon. We have previously enjoyed an excellent relationship with Sussex Police and we hope that valuable lessons have been learned from this unfortunate sequence of events.

With regard to the timing of the FA Cup match, now the subject to even greater scrutiny as a result of the events outlined above, both Brighton & Hove Albion and Crystal Palace are committed to a contractual agreement with The FA, as competition organiser, and its broadcast partners when it comes to matches being selected for live TV - unless the police or our Safety Advisory Group object, which neither did. That is because the Monday evening slot is the best option available over the third round weekend, due to engineering works and rail replacement services between London and Brighton across that weekend.

It is common knowledge that our stadium travel management plan relies on a large number of public transport services, as part of planning permission for the stadium, but we have hosted matches in similar or worse situations.

However, given the enhanced profile of this fixture, and the potential flash points as a result, without rail services available to get supporters of both clubs in and out of the stadium, this would have further added to the challenges already being faced. Yes, with a full rail service, a Sunday morning or lunchtime kick-off would have been the preferred option, but without that option it is clear that the Monday night, with live TV coverage for those unable to secure a ticket, is the best option.

And, yes, of course in the absence of a special train service, buses would have been option for a weekend lunchtime fixture but it would have taken 40 or 50 large vehicles to move the same number of visiting fans that ONE train can carry. Another significant challenge when our car and coach parks will already be operating at their maximum levels.

Others have written on these pages, or been quoted elsewhere on social media, in the past week of their shock at how pyrotechnics were let off at the Amex. Our staff retrieved a large number of pyrotechnics from visiting supporters ahead of the match last Tuesday but, using a variety of means, some were still smuggled into the stadium and discharged. Unfortunately, these very loud pyrotechnics, many the size of a AAA battery, are extremely difficult to detect, even with a full body search and footwear removal, neither of which are feasible without extremely long delays for supporters.

Similarly, when such a small pyrotechnic is dropped to the floor or rolled below a crowd of several thousand people, it is difficult for stewards to eject, or even identify, offenders while the game is in progress. Attempting to remove individuals can also often create additional disorder, well beyond the impact of a loud bang or a smoke cloud - as disconcerting and disturbing as these effects undoubtedly are for many of those in the stadium. Instead, we use sophisticated technology to review crowd behaviour after the match to identify and trace offenders. And this is exactly what we have done.

Many will have an opinion on what should happen or should be done when people behave contrary to what we’ve come to expect at the Amex during more than six almost entirely trouble-free seasons. But crowd management within a football stadium holding 30,000 people is about careful and balanced judgements at critical times. Aside from the discharge of nine pyrotechnics in the visiting supporters’ area, there was no disorder inside the stadium. It was only necessary to lock a relatively small number of fans outside the stadium after the illegal entry of individuals who used pyrotechnics outside the stadium to create a distraction, nullify sniffer dogs, and storm a turnstile and exit gate after kick-off. Some of the fans illegally entering the stadium had tickets, some didn’t. Meanwhile, those fans locked out were prevented entry to the Amex to avoid any possible risk of over-crowding or further disorder inside the stadium. Again, some of those fans locked out had tickets, some didn’t.

Despite the undoubted inconvenience for some genuine fans with tickets, including some late arriving Albion fans to the South end of the stadium, having personally reviewed the CCTV footage, I am entirely satisfied that the decision to close the stadium gates to prevent further potential disorder and to protect those already inside the stadium was entirely the correct call by our safety officer, in very difficult circumstances, entirely backed by the police. Indeed, it is just one example of a number of the careful and balanced judgements, referred to above, that our staff, and the various agencies that support our match day operations, must make.

Again, despite some of the frustrating events since the night in question, let’s not lose sight of the cause of this: a small group of individuals with the specific aim of causing disorder at a football match. We have a number of clear CCTV and still images of the individuals responsible for various elements of disorder and we continue to work with Sussex Police, Metropolitan Police, and National Football Policing Unit to identify them. Crystal Palace have also offered their support with this work. We will be supplying police with a range of evidence to assist with prosecution for a range of criminal offences, and we will fully support any action they take in relation to the offences which have been identified.

We should all now be focused on a football match between great rivals on what is traditionally one of the most exciting weekends in the English football calendar. The date and time of the match, whether or not it’s live on TV, the size of the visiting support, how they travel - and even what they wear - should be entirely irrelevant. These sorts of issues and concerns should be consigned to the dim and distant past.

Sadly, thanks to a mindless few, they aren’t. But, let’s not forget, the vast majority of fans - from BOTH clubs - behaved impeccably last time out. So, for them, and for the live national TV audience we can now expect, let’s focus on a delivering a great match - and allow the football, not the mindless few, to make January’s headlines.

Paul Barber
Chief Executive
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  #315  
Old 11-12-2017, 10:14 AM
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I think Mr Barber along with Sussex Police and this supposed Safety Advisory body ought to get their prayer mats out right now and hope Man City continue their surge to the PL title.

Given their lack of planning for the 2,000 Palace supporters a couple of weeks ago, what will be the plan to deal with Spurs or Man Utd games in B&HA's last two home games should either club have made up the gap to City for a chance of the Title?

We know from our match with Liverpool at the end of the 2013/14 season, the amount of 'unscheduled' entries, not just to the away section, but the home sections too, was in the high hundreds at least.

Brighton, with their pathetic Falmer station simply can't cope with any number of fans as Mr Barber manages to demonstrate in his rather contradictory letter.

We have three mainline stations to deal with the majority of fans, with several other stations including East Croydon, being far closer to Selhurst Park than many clubs can claim to be the nearest to their stadium.

Which is a major reason there is hardly ever an issue of away fans getting caught in a huge queue to gain entry.

Probably won't happen this season, but if anyone thinks Spurs or Man Utd fans are going to pass up on the chance of gatecrashing those fixtures should they be title deciders, they are living in the same Cloud Cuckooland as Mr Barber and CI Nelson.
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  #316  
Old 11-12-2017, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by sw16girl View Post
That is true - it is entirely possible that at least some of those fans that jumped the barriers were fans with tickets desperate to actually get in having been delayed by the Police action from actually getting there at a reasonable time.
The ones that were in the video of the storming were holding tockets above their head as they came in.....
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:22 AM
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I think Mr Barber along with Sussex Police and this supposed Safety Advisory body ought to get their prayer mats out right now and hope Man City continue their surge to the PL title.
Who do we know in the Safety Advisory Group who can put in a good word for us?
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  #318  
Old 11-12-2017, 10:27 AM
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Having read that statement two main questions stand out

Why was the match not delayed until Palace fans were in the ground. Surely this would have prevented any trouble caused by the police march around the city preventing the fans from getting to the ground.

It is very clear that the amount they refer to use of pyro's being let off in that statement shows that is the reason that the allocation will be kept to 2000. Why the hell don't we self police these ***** with pyro's and chuck them out the stadium ourselves, they are doing us no good or even the HF?
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Old 11-12-2017, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Eaglefoz View Post
Having read that statement two main questions stand out

Why was the match not delayed until Palace fans were in the ground. Surely this would have prevented any trouble caused by the police march around the city preventing the fans from getting to the ground.

It is very clear that the amount they refer to use of pyro's being let off in that statement shows that is the reason that the allocation will be kept to 2000. Why the hell don't we self police these ***** with pyro's and chuck them out the stadium ourselves, they are doing us no good or even the HF?
BHA will look for any excuse to reduce our allocation. Its unfair and our own club should do more to prevent them from doing it. Its all well putting out a statement but how about demanding we are given the full allocation so that our players can be backed by a full away end. There is no justification for it. If they cannot cope with our fans then play it at Selhurst.
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Old 11-12-2017, 12:18 PM
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Barbers response.
So the last sentence. I take it he was referring to the Police........

Our allocation reduced again due to the "events" of last week many of which proved to be fake news distributed by........The police.
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