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General Palace Discussion General Palace talk - please keep transfer talk in the transfer forum.

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  #41  
Old 08-12-2018, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Stellavista View Post
We remain a Championship club masquerading as a Premier League One. On the plus side, reintegration will be a piece of piss next season.
A championship club rolled in glitter : )
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  #42  
Old 08-12-2018, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by aashman12 View Post
European football would send us down.
So ******* what? Let's just carry on finishing 12th until the end of time
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  #43  
Old 08-12-2018, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by cpfc4evandeva View Post
For a club of our size, does staying in the Premier League become more difficult with each passing year? Common sense would dictate that it's a no. Year after year without relegation, the amount of money coming into the bank is obscenely high and so it helps you maintain your status. So why do I question this logic?

For a start, clubs of a similarish size to us that hang around in this league for longer than a season or two often never really become established. Bolton, Stoke, Swansea, Wigan, all had fairly lengthy recent spells in top flight but they also never really established themselves.

I think the biggest issue actually comes from the increase in money and the difficulty of managing it. Agents exploit this and clubs end up overpaying for bang average players. But the real key here is that the longer you stay up, the worse it can become.

After first getting promoted, a club might end up with a couple of good signings, and one or two wasters that are simply there for the cash and nothing else. As time goes on without relegation, you end up buying more of these. Then after a couple of seasons your half decent but not amazing right back that was part of your promotion team understandably asks for a wage increase, in-line with what his new non-amazing colleagues are getting. The club know that he's probably not really worth the wage he's asked for, but equally, finding a replacement for him that will require a transfer fee and will have an ageny demanding similar wages anyway, means that the club end up paying Mr Average way over the odds.

And this keeps continuing until a club of our size, despite the Premier League millions, just stretches itself until it falls apart.

Of course, a decent scouting system with a good recruitment policy, a proper youth academy, and careful management of finances helps massively in keeping clubs afloat. But in general, does it jusg become more difficult as time goes on, or am I chatting bollocks?
Been having very similar thoughts and posted this on twitter after the Brighton game. I think the route of our downfall can be traced back to Cabaye. It's not to say that without signing him we wouldn't of gone down quicker, but essentially in signing so many big wage players we have left ourselves unable to invest in a bench. At the bottom of this league you need a certain amount of quality anf experience, but having the stomach for it seems to carry you through as much. The tway spirit we came up with is dead and we're relying on players that don't seem to have that sort of character.

Oh and anyone who thinks the Brighton model is the way, just wait until Hughton gets the sack and then we will see.
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  #44  
Old Yesterday, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by MFBias View Post
This is a great post and an answer to all the miserable people who do nothing but moan. I just want us to win, if we dont I’ll watch next week with the same outlook. I dont really care how good the training ground is.
But how good the training ground is has an impact on us winning games, which is what you and everyone else wants.
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  #45  
Old Yesterday, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by cpfc4evandeva View Post
So ******* what? Let's just carry on finishing 12th until the end of time
Yeah, but look at Burnley - They didn't even get past the qualifying stages and now are struggling badly.
And on present form, I don't think there is much danger of finishing 12th ATM !!
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  #46  
Old Yesterday, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stellavista View Post
We remain a Championship club masquerading as a Premier League One
Could you let our players know so we can adjust their salaries accordingly
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  #47  
Old Yesterday, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by cpfc4evandeva View Post
But how good the training ground is has an impact on us winning games, which is what you and everyone else wants.
Yes ofcourse, but I dont get worked up about it with expectations.
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  #48  
Old Yesterday, 12:40 PM
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Our only problem and the difference between us and Brighton is that Glen Murray now plays for them instead of us. All roads lead to that.
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  #49  
Old Yesterday, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpfc4evandeva View Post
But how good the training ground is has an impact on us winning games, which is what you and everyone else wants.

Maybe it is the facilities, not the players, as according to the clubís Facebook updates every week; Ďthe lads are working hard in training í
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  #50  
Old Yesterday, 03:26 PM
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Yes ofcourse, but I dont get worked up about it with expectations.
Who's getting worked up about it?
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  #51  
Old Yesterday, 03:41 PM
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Part of the problem is the math of the PL. You start with 6 teams that are safe from relegation, 7 if you count Everton, which I do. The remaining 13 teams are more or less equal in terms of resources.

Relegating 3 out of 13 teams means you drop the bottom 23% each year. Obviously a team like Bournemouth has a lot better odds than Cardiff, but in general, sooner or later your luck will run out and you'll end up in the bottom three.

The only alternative is to become successful enough to reach the rank of Everton or higher, which no one has been able to do in recent times.
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  #52  
Old Today, 07:30 AM
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The Premier League is not a fair competition - from the very start it was designed to perpetuate the big clubs' dominance, and it has done so in a way that maybe even they didn't dare dream. In that context you have to accept that 2/3rds of the division have no hope of 'success' in any meaningful sense - our only hope is to redefine it to mean mid-table finishes.

In an environment such as this, with an effective attritional rate of 23% as Wilbraham413 notes, the odds of staying up for a decade are very slight, and we should not be surprised when our luck runs out.
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  #53  
Old Today, 07:37 AM
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It’s fvck all to do with luck

Our strategy from top to bottom has stunk the place out for the last 3 or 4 seasons

It’s not luck that runs out, it’s your strategy failing
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  #54  
Old Today, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worksop Palace View Post
Itís fvck all to do with luck

Our strategy from top to bottom has stunk the place out for the last 3 or 4 seasons

Itís not luck that runs out, itís your strategy failing
Lot of truth in that . We've had a different manager every season at some stage , so strategy is hardly a word that can be used . Maybe getting relegated and then actually keeping a manager with a strategy is the way to go , because it's obvious we have no concrete plan. winging it for as long as we have has now caught up with us .
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  #55  
Old Today, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Wilbraham413 View Post
Part of the problem is the math of the PL. You start with 6 teams that are safe from relegation, 7 if you count Everton, which I do. The remaining 13 teams are more or less equal in terms of resources.

Relegating 3 out of 13 teams means you drop the bottom 23% each year. Obviously a team like Bournemouth has a lot better odds than Cardiff, but in general, sooner or later your luck will run out and you'll end up in the bottom three.

The only alternative is to become successful enough to reach the rank of Everton or higher, which no one has been able to do in recent times.
Brilliant post. It's obvious, when outlined as above, of the danger of the mini league we are locked into, and that won't change. But it's still totally unacceptable to be uncompetitive in this league and fail to win games against our rivals.
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  #56  
Old Today, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worksop Palace View Post
Itís fvck all to do with luck

Our strategy from top to bottom has stunk the place out for the last 3 or 4 seasons

Itís not luck that runs out, itís your strategy failing

Agreed.

Newcastle, Sunderland and Aston Villa all went down in recent seasons due to mismanagement and lack of strategy. All big enough clubs to do more than just survive in the league.
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  #57  
Old Today, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worksop Palace View Post
It’s fvck all to do with luck

Our strategy from top to bottom has stunk the place out for the last 3 or 4 seasons

It’s not luck that runs out, it’s your strategy failing
Yep.

Although I wondered if we had a strategy.
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  #58  
Old Today, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_the_eagle View Post
Been having very similar thoughts and posted this on twitter after the Brighton game. I think the route of our downfall can be traced back to Cabaye. It's not to say that without signing him we wouldn't of gone down quicker, but essentially in signing so many big wage players we have left ourselves unable to invest in a bench. At the bottom of this league you need a certain amount of quality anf experience, but having the stomach for it seems to carry you through as much. The tway spirit we came up with is dead and we're relying on players that don't seem to have that sort of character.

Oh and anyone who thinks the Brighton model is the way, just wait until Hughton gets the sack and then we will see.
I think the 2 or 3 marquee signing system gives you a good chance of staying up. However, if you do go down as those players donít perform or they get injured then you are screwed. Iím bored of getting beat most weeks in the premier league but we are not in a good place to get relegated. Wilf and AWB would fetch big fees but that rips the heart out of our team. The marquee signings values would have seen big drops, I think we would be lucky to get £20m combined for Sakho and Benteke given their wages at the moment. If Burnley go down they keep most of their team and would be challenging at the top end. I would worry we would be more in a Hull / Swansea scenario at the moment.
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  #59  
Old Today, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dim View Post
Our only problem and the difference between us and Brighton is that Glen Murray now plays for them instead of us. All roads lead to that.
Rubbish, get over it.
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