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  #401  
Old 17-05-2018, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legaleagle2 View Post
Long as we chuck out Turkey's ambassador at the same time.or should we admire murdering tyrants when they do something we like for domestic electioneering reasons?
Both should be thrown out along with a great many others.
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  #402  
Old 17-05-2018, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Lombardo's hair View Post
Negotiation compromise compassion understand and humanity and common sense......you are a dreamer. Unfortunately with the US backing Israel will endeavour to achieve what Israel wants and the Palestinians will continue to feel aggrieved and persecuted
Reading this thread your probably right I have said it before there are on both sides those that given the opportunity that might just make it work.
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  #403  
Old 17-05-2018, 06:21 PM
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[QUOTE=nickgusset;14261469]Interesting that Turkey chucked out some Israeli ambassadors over this.

Duplicate post. Apologies
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  #404  
Old 17-05-2018, 06:25 PM
legaleagle2 legaleagle2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Both should be thrown out along with a great many others.
Saudi, USA, N Korea,China, ...the sky's the limit....
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  #405  
Old 17-05-2018, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickgusset View Post
Interesting that Turkey chucked out some Israeli ambassadors over this.

I think we should too.
Some? How many did they have?
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  #406  
Old 17-05-2018, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legaleagle2 View Post
Long as we chuck out Turkey's ambassador at the same time.or should we admire murdering tyrants' regimes when they do something we like for domestic electioneering reasons?
Indeed.
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  #407  
Old 17-05-2018, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Friskey View Post
But apart from that......?
shit haircut and accused of corruption?
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  #408  
Old 18-05-2018, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legaleagle2 View Post
More precisely,the responsibility for the shootings lies with to the Netanyahu government .
It runs from whoever issued the order at the top down to the soldier who pulled the trigger
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  #409  
Old 18-05-2018, 09:19 AM
legaleagle2 legaleagle2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
It runs from whoever issued the order at the top down to the soldier who pulled the trigger
It does,but the buck ultimately starts and stops with those who issue the orders and approve the rules of engagement.

There is currently a challenge to the legality of the rules of engagement before the Court in Israel,issued by 5 Israeli human rights groups and one Gaza-based one.

"...Five Israeli human rights NGOs and the Gaza-based Al Mezan Center for Human Rights asked the High Court to declare as unlawful any regulations that allow soldiers to open fire at unarmed civilians.

Lawyers for the groups said Israel’s response to the Gaza protests must follow the rules of engagement for law enforcement officers, who are barred from using lethal force unless they face imminent danger to “life and limb.”

Speaking in the packed Jerusalem courtroom Monday, attorney Suhad Bishara, representing Israeli rights group Adalah, said the facts indicated otherwise.

“The great majority of those shot were at a distance from the [border] fence,” she said. “There is systematic use of lethal fire with no justification.”

Last edited by legaleagle2; 18-05-2018 at 07:44 PM.
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  #410  
Old 19-05-2018, 05:45 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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Saw this interesting post elsewhere. Didn’t know Egypt had opened the border:

Quote:
Sisi is playing the usual double game of Egyptian leaders apropos Israel. He knows there exists a significant, though nothing like it used to be, amount of support for Palestinians among Egyptians, including his base. So he can't do nothing. But he's also Netanyahu's number 1 regional ally and, along with Mubarak before him, Israel's chief ally when it comes to enacting the siege on Gaza.

So now he's opened the border at Rafah for a month. This is good for Gazans, but it's coupled with the facts that Sisi effectively sided with Israel over the massacre, calling for Hamas to stop provoking violence, while he has stopped Turkish aid from getting into Gaza and a proposed scheme where those seriously wounded in Gaza would receive medical treatment in Gaza. So he lifted his part of the siege for one month. Then it'll continue.

And any movement between Gaza and Egypt will be of the usual racist standard meted out by Egyptian authorities (now the Presidential Guard, Border cops, trained to shoot to kill 'illegals' and the Mukhabarat, who are of course so tight with the Mossad that they often act as one unit when it come to Gaza) - Palestinians will face humiliating security checks and huge delays in squalid conditions.

Sisi doesn't have a humanitarian bone in his body.
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  #411  
Old 19-05-2018, 05:56 PM
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Another good post:

Quote:
"On the line that 50 of those massacred by the IDF were 'Hamas'. Firstly, let's assume they were Hamas, if you're an apologist, do you think that these people simply being in Hamas means that they deserve to be slaughtered like animals? It reminds me all too vividly of the justifications for hunting young men down and blowing the backs of their heads off or burning women alive in tents that you got from Sisians during and after the Rabaa and Nadha massacres.
Of course, it reminds me of Syria an the justification that everything -- poison gas, napalm, brrel bombs, infanticide, mass rape, torture, ethnic cleansing etc. - is permissable because of 'jihadism/al-Qaeda/Daesh/Salafism'.
The propagandists for mass murder creative fantasy narratives that utilise misrepresentation of the truth - there contains some rebels affiliated with a group that used to be affiliated with al-Qaeda, so thus the problem is them and not the forces carrying out genocide. But there's something more vicious at the heart of all this - imagine if every single rebel in, as one example, East Ghouta (where al-Qaeda had NO presence - JFS had a very small presence, but they are not al-Qaeda), was a supporter of al-Qaeda. Would that justify gassing to death women and children cowering in shelters? Would that justify targeting schools, hospitals and playgrounds? Would it justify genocide?
So back to the idea that Israel was right to carry out a massacre because 50 of the 60+ protesters killed the other day were 'Hamas'? If the Syria or Egypt examples don't move you, then it's kind of like justifying Bloody Sunday by saying that the protesters murdered by the British Army were all members of Sinn Fein. Not the IRA, of which Sinn Fein was the political wing. But just Sinn Fein (many Sinn Fein members were targeted for execution by the British intelligence-aided Loyalist paramilitaries).
Hamas is a very large political organisation that has a very large base in Gaza, especially among young men. The overwhelming majority of those who are members of Hamas are not members of the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, the armed wing. The supporters of mass murder simply just essentialise Hamas as a 'terror organisation' - thus, the context of what happened at the border, with mass murder of UNARMED people by the IDF, is completely subordinated to this notion that Israel was killing terrorists.
It's EXACTLY the same process and form as apologism for Assad's mass murder. There's no getting away from that. When the Jewish Chronicle and other magazines that pretend to be non-biased publish these monstrous headlines, they are simply trying to justify mass murder. It's evil. Again, I use that word so much these days - it feels like you're surrounded by it. There's no other adequate word.
It comes down to this: Palestinians are protesting not a US embassy being opened in Al Quds, but yet another indication that the struggle for their self-determination is going backwards at the hands of a fascistic Israeli government and the most right-wing US president in modern US history. Their entire identity is being erased everywhere they look. So they had every right to protest. The protest was overwhelmingly peaceful and none of those killed were carrying guns.
It was a massacre by a regime that knows it could murder 5000 Palestinians and get away with it. The apologists and open supporters of Israel could justify and apologise for all of Palestine being exterminated. When you're arguing with them, it's not that there is a fault in their logic that you can fix - they simply agree with mass murder. For their own reasons, they have to filter that support for murder with diversions and self-justifications that forges form them some kind of moral superiority, but at the heart of it is a religious conviction that nothing Israel does can ever be wrong. A wicked, wicked religious conviction."
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  #412  
Old Today, 10:16 AM
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  #413  
Old Today, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legaleagle2 View Post
It does,but the buck ultimately starts and stops with those who issue the orders and approve the rules of engagement.

There is currently a challenge to the legality of the rules of engagement before the Court in Israel,issued by 5 Israeli human rights groups and one Gaza-based one.

"...Five Israeli human rights NGOs and the Gaza-based Al Mezan Center for Human Rights asked the High Court to declare as unlawful any regulations that allow soldiers to open fire at unarmed civilians.

Lawyers for the groups said Israel’s response to the Gaza protests must follow the rules of engagement for law enforcement officers, who are barred from using lethal force unless they face imminent danger to “life and limb.”

Speaking in the packed Jerusalem courtroom Monday, attorney Suhad Bishara, representing Israeli rights group Adalah, said the facts indicated otherwise.

“The great majority of those shot were at a distance from the [border] fence,” she said. “There is systematic use of lethal fire with no justification.”
That's not what the law stipulates, following orders is not a defence valid for an illegal action (pretty much one of the first pieces of law tested in relation to war crimes - Soldiers in UK are only bound to follow legal orders - Orders to commit a crime are not grounds for court martial or disciplinary procedures )
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