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  #41  
Old 19-05-2017, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Jules View Post
I really don't get why people are saying this sort of thing. I can see there are unanswered questions around home care, but in terms of residential care home costs, the proposed changes seem far kinder than the current rule. My mum has had to sell her flat and will pay her own costs until her assets drop to 23k. A 100k limit would seem far more palatable.
Because only about a year ago the Govt was proposing other care plans that capped care costs. Those have now been ditched, when we had the opportunity to be innovative and fairer.
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  #42  
Old 19-05-2017, 08:35 AM
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  #43  
Old 19-05-2017, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
Because only about a year ago the Govt was proposing other care plans that capped care costs. Those have now been ditched, when we had the opportunity to be innovative and fairer.
Sure, given that my inheritance is going down the toilet, I was well aware of this. But the Dilnot recommendations always looked, even to me, hopelessly optimistic. God knows if it it's true, but there's a story going round that the UK doesn't have much money to splash around. An improvement on what is the current rule seems good to me - though it will obviously come too late in our case.

Your earlier point about bed-blocking is a good one. I was never too unhappy when hospitals and social and mental health teams took responsibility for the care of my mum, at no cost to the family.
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  #44  
Old 19-05-2017, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by mushroom View Post
Be nice to ya kids, sign the house over to them, and hope you don't fall out with them.
Gift Init, loads of tax.
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  #45  
Old 19-05-2017, 08:55 AM
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Equity release the house, gift cash to kids, hope you don't die for seven years.

Anyhue that gets around the gift with reservation of benefit rules (or at least appears to, 30 second review caveat)
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  #46  
Old 19-05-2017, 09:32 AM
Skintagain Skintagain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind_Eagle View Post
So let me get this straight. The Tory party are suggesting that your care should be self funded until you are left with just 100k of assets but, it's all ok because you won't be charged until you die.

This is nothing but a tax with the highest rate charged to the poorest and the lowest paid by the wealthy.

Your 200k flat? We'll have half of that.

Genuinely disgusted of Dorset.
As I understand it under the current system they could have to pay up to 177k in that scenario.

The average stay in a care home is 18months. This with nursing equates to about 75k without 60k, I suspect the previous capped proposal is related to this.

Depending on your political view you can either take from general taxation as indeed it will be for those without assets or appropriate funds from those with assets. As you suggest this is disproportionate for those with limited assets or those that hang on forever.

In my view taking it all from general taxation is an unfair burden on younger people who have the issues of buying housing, bringing up kids and indeed saving for old age.
I guess there is no system that will ever please people that takes large quantities of cash from them but the more I think about it the more I see this as a better system than the existing one.
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  #47  
Old 19-05-2017, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Equity release the house, gift cash to kids, hope you don't die for seven years.

Anyhue that gets around the gift with reservation of benefit rules (or at least appears to, 30 second review caveat)
the 7 year thing is for inheritance tax not care.

The current system is pretty brutal in that you have to sell your house to pay for care until you have c20K left - once all the money has gone you get the same care anyway that someone who had no money would get anyway.

As for 'dementia tax' anyone unfortunate enough to have a family member get this knows they go into a home pretty damn quick. Its a very depressing thing but under the new system their estate will keep 100K. That said not sure why they don't have a cap on how much you pay.
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  #48  
Old 19-05-2017, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by eaglejez View Post
the 7 year thing is for inheritance tax not care.
yes, and this is a way around the care and the IHT
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  #49  
Old 19-05-2017, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind_Eagle View Post
So let me get this straight. The Tory party are suggesting that your care should be self funded until you are left with just 100k of assets but, it's all ok because you won't be charged until you die.

This is nothing but a tax with the highest rate charged to the poorest and the lowest paid by the wealthy.

Your 200k flat? We'll have half of that.

Genuinely disgusted of Dorset.
its actually the opposite of this. If you have a 200k flat, "we'll have half of it". If you have a 1m property, "we'll have 90% of it"
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  #50  
Old 19-05-2017, 10:11 AM
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  #51  
Old 19-05-2017, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
As I understand it under the current system they could have to pay up to 177k in that scenario.

The average stay in a care home is 18months. This with nursing equates to about 75k without 60k, I suspect the previous capped proposal is related to this.

Depending on your political view you can either take from general taxation as indeed it will be for those without assets or appropriate funds from those with assets. As you suggest this is disproportionate for those with limited assets or those that hang on forever.

In my view taking it all from general taxation is an unfair burden on younger people who have the issues of buying housing, bringing up kids and indeed saving for old age.
I guess there is no system that will ever please people that takes large quantities of cash from them but the more I think about it the more I see this as a better system than the existing one.
This in a nutshell.

The side effects of this are that we may move away from the inheritance dependent society we're creating to rewarding individual hard work and achievement.

It's a case of, do we want the success of the next generation to be down to what their parents achieved or down to what they achieve.

Plus it may help balance out house prices and wealth around the country which considering the current trajectory would be very welcome and might stave off Some serious civil unrest we're bottling up.
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  #52  
Old 19-05-2017, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by sheepy View Post

It's a case of, do we want the success of the next generation to be down to what their parents achieved or down to what they achieve.

.
I sincerely hope you don't think that what parents have achieved over the last fifty years or so. has been simply sitting on their arses passively waiting for their house price to rise.
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  #53  
Old 19-05-2017, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Equity release the house, gift cash to kids, hope you don't die for seven years.

Anyhue that gets around the gift with reservation of benefit rules (or at least appears to, 30 second review caveat)
Gift them the deposit for a house for a starter.
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  #54  
Old 19-05-2017, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by mushroom View Post
Be nice to ya kids, sign the house over to them, and hope you don't fall out with them.
The big problem with that is not falling out with your kids, but your child falling out with their spouse. Straight away, half your house goes to the spouse, never to be seen again.
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  #55  
Old 19-05-2017, 10:49 AM
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  #56  
Old 19-05-2017, 10:52 AM
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Care homes are ripping off those in need of care= take them int state ownership!

Whatever happened to good old NHS with the cradle to the grave philosophy?

My next door neighbour has a stroke and has to pay for his care out of his estate and his kids lose out on the assets he planned to leave them,death tax.

I get flattened by a steam roller and my kids retain the full benefit of my assets as I intended, taller and wider than I have ever been, no death tax.

I know we have to have politicians but do they all have to be both childish and brainless to function.

None of the political parties other than perhaps the Attlee government in my life time have conveyed anything other than divisions. Is it not about time we had an intelligent system for all the people rather than this ideological drivel that goes on an on and round and round. Jesus feckin wept.
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  #57  
Old 19-05-2017, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdm61 View Post
The whole situation is a sh1t sandwich but it does seem a bit out of order for the Tories to be getting partisan stick for this when under Labour, you would only be left with 23K and have to sell your house while still alive. I know the Tories have added home care to this but overall, the situation under Labour would be less fair, unless of course you agree with taking the homes of homeowners to subsidise are homes.
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  #58  
Old 19-05-2017, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
I sincerely hope you don't think that what parents have achieved over the last fifty years or so. has been simply sitting on their arses passively waiting for their house price to rise.
Not at all.

But we're increasingly getting into a situation where this sitting passively on their arses waiting for house prices to rise is becoming a far greater determinent of how well off their children are than any other factor (like schooling, upbringing etc).

And I say this as someone who is set to benefit considerably from inheritence in my life given the current set up and any changes like this will probably leave me out of pocket by 75k - 150k.

Personally if it funds proper care for my parents and myself, being primarily funded by those who can afford to & helps our country reduce our dependence on inheritence I'm all for it. If it brings down house prices at the same time all the better.
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  #59  
Old 19-05-2017, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Philipw View Post
its actually the opposite of this. If you have a 200k flat, "we'll have half of it". If you have a 1m property, "we'll have 90% of it"
Needs repeating. The (asset) richer you are, the more it will hit you.
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  #60  
Old 19-05-2017, 01:22 PM
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Needs repeating. The (asset) richer you are, the more it will hit you.
If you need the services.

If your eventual demise involves mind that bus, what bus?, splat! then it doesn't touch you at all
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