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General Palace Discussion General Palace talk - please keep transfer talk in the transfer forum.

View Poll Results: As of 05/02/17 who should be first choice Goalkeeper
1 Julian Speroni 311 26.22%
13 wayne Hennessey 178 15.01%
30 Steve Mandanda 561 47.30%
Another 136 11.47%
Voters: 1186. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1001  
Old 12-04-2015, 02:19 PM
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With nowt better to do while QPR vs Chelsea is on, I had a crack at rating the top two keepers (and selected thirds) at each Premier League club. Turns out that despite a relatively poor season by his standards, Jules remains in pretty esteemed company…

5 stars
Courtois (CHE)
De Gea (MU)
Lloris (TOT)

4.5 stars
Ospina (ARS)
Cech (CHE)
Hart (MC)
Forster (SOU)
Begovic (STO)

4 stars
Szczesny (ARS)
Guzan (AV)
Speroni (CP)
Howard (EVE)
Schmeichel (LEI)
Mignolet (LIV)
Valdes (MU)
Krul (NEW)
Butland (STO)
Vorm (TOT)

3.5 stars
Given (AV)
Heaton (BUR)
Hennessey (CP)
Joel (EVE)
McGregor (HUL)
Harper (HUL)
Schwarzer (LEI)
Caballero (MC)
Lindegaard (MU)
McCarthy (QPR)
Green (QPR)
Davis (SOU)
Sorenson (STO)
Pantillimon (SUN)
Fabianski (SWA)
Friedel (TOT)

Foster (WBA)

Myhill (WBA)
Adrian (WHU)

3 stars
Martinez (ARS)
Gilks (BUR)
Jakupovic (HUL)
Hamer (LEI)
Jones (LIV)
Wright (MC)
Amos (MU)
Elliott (NEW)
Alnwick (NEW)
Gazzaniga (SOU)
Mannone (SUN)
Tremmel (SWA)
Jaaskelainen (WH)
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  #1002  
Old 12-04-2015, 02:39 PM
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We'll have a tough time replacing Speroni. I think we take his qualities for granted and now people only talk about his faults
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  #1003  
Old 12-04-2015, 02:42 PM
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Nice work Ben!
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  #1004  
Old 12-04-2015, 02:54 PM
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Speroni kept us in the game against City with some amazing saves. We have a confident experienced keeper in the premiership, that should be considered a good position.
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  #1005  
Old 12-04-2015, 02:56 PM
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Butland should be our number 1 target in the summer
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  #1006  
Old 13-04-2015, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzhiyi View Post
With nowt better to do while QPR vs Chelsea is on, I had a crack at rating the top two keepers (and selected thirds) at each Premier League club. Turns out that despite a relatively poor season by his standards, Jules remains in pretty esteemed company…

5 stars
Courtois (CHE)
De Gea (MU)
Lloris (TOT)

4.5 stars
Ospina (ARS)
Cech (CHE)
Hart (MC)
Forster (SOU)
Begovic (STO)

4 stars
Szczesny (ARS)
Guzan (AV)
Speroni (CP)
Howard (EVE)
Schmeichel (LEI)
Mignolet (LIV)
Valdes (MU)
Krul (NEW)
Butland (STO)
Vorm (TOT)

3.5 stars
Given (AV)
Heaton (BUR)
Hennessey (CP)
Joel (EVE)
McGregor (HUL)
Harper (HUL)
Schwarzer (LEI)
Caballero (MC)
Lindegaard (MU)
McCarthy (QPR)
Green (QPR)
Davis (SOU)
Sorenson (STO)
Pantillimon (SUN)
Fabianski (SWA)
Friedel (TOT)

Foster (WBA)

Myhill (WBA)
Adrian (WHU)

3 stars
Martinez (ARS)
Gilks (BUR)
Jakupovic (HUL)
Hamer (LEI)
Jones (LIV)
Wright (MC)
Amos (MU)
Elliott (NEW)
Alnwick (NEW)
Gazzaniga (SOU)
Mannone (SUN)
Tremmel (SWA)
Jaaskelainen (WH)
Don't agree with all of those. If I find time I will try and do one.
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  #1007  
Old 13-04-2015, 01:23 AM
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I think Benzhiyi has got it spot on or at least very close. De Gea, Lloris and Courtois definitely different gravy. Would maybe only swap some 3.5' for 3.0's and vice versa. Speroni being between 9th and 18th in the 4.0 rating group for the division is about right. Those that rate him, like me can say he is as high as 9th then, those that don't as low as 18th. Still definitely in the top half of keepers in the league
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  #1008  
Old 13-04-2015, 08:02 AM
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Nigelbrag came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietNigelbrag came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietNigelbrag came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietNigelbrag came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietNigelbrag came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietNigelbrag came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietNigelbrag came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietNigelbrag came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietNigelbrag came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietNigelbrag came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietNigelbrag came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
There are many factors when rating Keepers performances, one of the important factors to bear in mind is the quality of defenders alongside, which makes a big difference.
As an example, having Chelsea and Arsenal defenders just to name Two teams, protecting the keeper certainly helps and shows, whereas in Palace's case, Speroni has seen so much chopping and changing in front of him for most of the season, i.e the swapping around of LB and RB, and still not knowing who should play at Left Back.
Apart from Dann, poor old JS has had to adapt to constant changes around him, so under those circumstances has done exceptionally well.
Finally, to put Speroni alongside Butland and Valdes who never play is confusing as to how they could be rated in the same category.
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Old 13-04-2015, 08:15 AM
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Lloris is very overrated. They've conceded more goals than us and we had Warnock for half a year.
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  #1010  
Old 13-04-2015, 08:33 AM
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Don't agree with all of those. If I find time I will try and do one.
There's enough people on here that will slag you off for free - no need for you to do it !
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  #1011  
Old 13-04-2015, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Nigelbrag View Post
There are many factors when rating Keepers performances, one of the important factors to bear in mind is the quality of defenders alongside, which makes a big difference.

As an example, having Chelsea and Arsenal defenders just to name Two teams, protecting the keeper certainly helps and shows, whereas in Palace's case, Speroni has seen so much chopping and changing in front of him for most of the season, i.e the swapping around of LB and RB, and still not knowing who should play at Left Back.

Apart from Dann, poor old JS has had to adapt to constant changes around him, so under those circumstances has done exceptionally well.

Finally, to put Speroni alongside Butland and Valdes who never play is confusing as to how they could be rated in the same category.

I tried to base on performances over the last 2-3 seasons - Friedel would have been right up the top in his prime, but age has understandably caught up with him. (And many of Jules' performances pre-Jan were below '4-star' calibre.)

Of course, it's all subjective and in my head rather than an exact science, so group mass debating it welcome.
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  #1012  
Old 13-04-2015, 09:07 AM
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group mass debating .
No thanks
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Old 13-04-2015, 09:09 AM
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Don't agree with all of those. If I find time I will try and do one.
Your wasting your time mate.Speroni is our No. 1 this year and he will be next year.And rightly so.Hennesey is also an excellent back up.Close thread.
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  #1014  
Old 13-04-2015, 09:10 AM
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Lloris is very overrated. They've conceded more goals than us and we had Warnock for half a year.
When we have played Spurs he always seems to pull off some staggeringly good saves and his anticipation to run out and clear the ball is exceptional. The serious thing about Jules is he has been extremely inconsistent, last three games back to his best but there was one reason people felt Wayne should have been given a chance (which he hasn't as a couple of isolated cup games are not a run in the team). Joe Hart at the moment shows there is not a really class English keeper, Butland may be that keeper but will he ever be a match for Big Nige? Aussie keeper for me when we buy.
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Old 13-04-2015, 09:30 AM
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Lloris is a blinding keeper...one of the best in prem...expect him to end up at Madrid or barca..
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  #1016  
Old 13-04-2015, 09:34 AM
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Lloris is a blinding keeper...one of the best in prem...expect him to end up at Madrid or barca..
Given Arsenal's French connection, it still baffles me they didn't sign him.
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Old 13-04-2015, 10:18 AM
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Given Arsenal's French connection, it still baffles me they didn't sign him.
Arse have done very well getting Ospina (who was a relative unknown prior to the WC), they are certainly a better team with him playing. It is noticeable how many attacks result from goal kicks for Arsenal, Spurs and Man U because of the precise and long distribution. That kind of keeper not only saves but makes goals.
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Old 13-04-2015, 10:24 AM
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Suspect Hennesey will move on unless he gets the nod that he will be No. 1 next season. That I doubt. We ought to look to buy a young keeper with the potential to take over when Speroni does retire at the end of next season. I suspect Hennesey will not want to wait that long.
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Old 13-04-2015, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzhiyi View Post
With nowt better to do while QPR vs Chelsea is on, I had a crack at rating the top two keepers (and selected thirds) at each Premier League club. Turns out that despite a relatively poor season by his standards, Jules remains in pretty esteemed company…

5 stars
Courtois (CHE)
De Gea (MU)
Lloris (TOT)

4.5 stars
Ospina (ARS)
Cech (CHE)
Hart (MC)
Forster (SOU)
Begovic (STO)

4 stars
Szczesny (ARS)
Guzan (AV)
Speroni (CP)
Howard (EVE)
Schmeichel (LEI)
Mignolet (LIV)
Valdes (MU)
Krul (NEW)
Butland (STO)
Vorm (TOT)

3.5 stars
Given (AV)
Heaton (BUR)
Hennessey (CP)
Joel (EVE)
McGregor (HUL)
Harper (HUL)
Schwarzer (LEI)
Caballero (MC)
Lindegaard (MU)
McCarthy (QPR)
Green (QPR)
Davis (SOU)
Sorenson (STO)
Pantillimon (SUN)
Fabianski (SWA)
Friedel (TOT)

Foster (WBA)

Myhill (WBA)
Adrian (WHU)
.....
Shortened the list a bit. Thanks for putting this up.

If I take the list as is then I would have a different opinion on :

Fabianski and Pantilimon - Fabianski is surely should be in the second grouping and Pantilimon in that or more likely towards the top of the third one but not in the fourth. Fabianski from a Squawka stats perspective is top of all the keepers. difficult to understand how they can be that wrong. whenever I have see him I think he is a very good keeper. There are others

The problem I have with your list in general for this conversation is that when Speroni is on top form then he is probably in that third group. i.e. so in his last 3 games it's probably about right. Over his career I think he would be at that level too. But prior to those last 3 games he really hadn't put in that level of performance for anything more than the odd game, if at all. The point being raised consistently has not been that he has always been and is now a poor keeper (no one has said that) it is that this season - until now his form has dipped and this puts him in your bottom category.

Unless there is some obvious explanation (secret injury that is now recovering or some off pitch drama now resolved) then my personal verdict remains the same. He remains a great servant/legend etc. but we cannot start another season without a better option in goal. We are at the moment a significantly stronger team than ever before but risking that with mistakes between the sticks and the inevitable dip in confidence across the defence should not be something we risk.

Again for completeness I have no idea if that is Hennessey or not because I really haven't seen him tested at Premier level. Neither has anyone else while in a Palace shirt and his Wolves prem. days are long gone. The coaching and managerial staff are rock solid and so will do whatever needs to be done.

One last comment re the list - is it ordered within the categories? If not the grouping tells you Speroni is middle of the road or one of the worst in the division. If they are ordered then I am even more confused by the verdicts on Fabianski and Pantilimon. Thought provoking though - thanks
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Old 13-04-2015, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Martin H View Post
Shortened the list a bit. Thanks for putting this up.



If I take the list as is then I would have a different opinion on :



Fabianski and Pantilimon - Fabianski is surely should be in the second grouping and Pantilimon in that or more likely towards the top of the third one but not in the fourth. Fabianski from a Squawka stats perspective is top of all the keepers. difficult to understand how they can be that wrong. whenever I have see him I think he is a very good keeper. There are others



The problem I have with your list in general for this conversation is that when Speroni is on top form then he is probably in that third group. i.e. so in his last 3 games it's probably about right. Over his career I think he would be at that level too. But prior to those last 3 games he really hadn't put in that level of performance for anything more than the odd game, if at all. The point being raised consistently has not been that he has always been and is now a poor keeper (no one has said that) it is that this season - until now his form has dipped and this puts him in your bottom category.



Unless there is some obvious explanation (secret injury that is now recovering or some off pitch drama now resolved) then my personal verdict remains the same. He remains a great servant/legend etc. but we cannot start another season without a better option in goal. We are at the moment a significantly stronger team than ever before but risking that with mistakes between the sticks and the inevitable dip in confidence across the defence should not be something we risk.



Again for completeness I have no idea if that is Hennessey or not because I really haven't seen him tested at Premier level. Neither has anyone else while in a Palace shirt and his Wolves prem. days are long gone. The coaching and managerial staff are rock solid and so will do whatever needs to be done.



One last comment re the list - is it ordered within the categories? If not the grouping tells you Speroni is middle of the road or one of the worst in the division. If they are ordered then I am even more confused by the verdicts on Fabianski and Pantilimon. Thought provoking though - thanks

Yep, I think you're right on Speroni with regards to this season. If I'd done the same list six weeks I'd probably have ranked him a tier lower.

Great info re Fabianski - given that evidence he should certainly be ranked higher.

There are no rankings within each tier - keepers are just listed in alphabetical club order.

Fun exercise, innit?
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