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  #81  
Old 01-05-2012, 10:17 PM
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  #82  
Old 01-05-2012, 10:18 PM
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His shooting is still far too erratic. Getting better though. I wouldn't back Zaha and Murray as a partnership unless there is a very big improvement in service from midfield first. We really need someone who is a born finisher and who has a Championship track record for scoring more than 15 goals a season.
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  #83  
Old 01-05-2012, 10:26 PM
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playing Wilf furthest Forward means he can afford to not be the best finisher, if he only has to beat one defender he'll turn most championship defenders, and one on one he just needs to beat the keeper.
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  #84  
Old 01-05-2012, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by akinbiyifan
Really Akinbiyi scored 136 FOOTBALL LEAGUE goals, Murray has 92 (of which only 6 have been scored in the second tier). I don't even think Akinbiyi is good, just didn't like the stick he got at the time, something which Murray has yet to recieve despite being equally dire.
So you didn't like the stick Akinbiyi got (not much from what I remember, just a few jokes at his clumsiness) and yet feel Murray deserves it? Whose being two-faced here?

Akinbiyi came into an attacking team and broke up a very successful Dougie and Clinton partnership at the time as well as being our 2nd largest 2.2m transfer fee paid ever by Palace, and so yes the pressure was on for him to perform. Murray was free and came into a team who were bookies favourites to get relegated, and played defensive football all season. There is a difference between the two.
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  #85  
Old 01-05-2012, 11:07 PM
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Zaha will improve his finishing as soon as he becomes more confident in his shooting ability. Throughout the season he has tended to panic and rush his shots. It was good to see on Saturday that he actually paused and allowed the keeper to commit himself before striking. The only way he will gain that extra confidence is by having an extended run with a partner up front.

But Wilf needs to work on his movement off the ball as does Murray if that is who he is going to start the season with. I hope it works and think that Wilf would outscore Murray by at least 2 to 1. But I also believe that Murrays limitations could become more evident and may not be his regular partner.

Glenn is still better than Akinbiyi though
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  #86  
Old 01-05-2012, 11:24 PM
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Interesting thread. Zaha (and Scannel) is a forward, his time has come to move there.

If the runes are to be believed dougie favours a 442 but with the 4 being a diamond formation.

In which case the back 4 is easy to call. the diamond 4 far harder, but what is for sure Williams is perfect for the apex of that formation. Jedi or Wright can play at the base of the Diamond.

But who plays right and left? Jedi, O'Keefe, KG. Ambrose and Parr would all be able to play that role.

Ambrose and Garvan in theory would also be able to play the apex role.

Up front, we have Murray, Scannel and Zaha. Odd that we have never seen Murray and Scannel play together or Scannel and Zaha.


My personal favourites in this formation would be

Speroni

NewRB Gardner McCarthy Moxey
-----------Jedi-------------
---Ambrose---------Parr----
----------williams----------
-------Murray---Zaha-------

Subs Scannel, O'Keefe, Wright, New CF, New CB

Squad: Price, Marrow, Parsons, De Silva, Pedroza

That leaves: KG, Andrew, Dorman, Garvan, Easter for the transfer list (and sadly Clyne who is leaving of his own accord)

I would hope that team would have sufficient bite to win the ball, sufficient skill to keep it and sure would have lots of movement, skill and running. My only concern would be Ambrose really getting stuck into what is more a midfield job than a pure wing or free role. Clyne could cover him but without Clyne that side will be vunerable.
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  #87  
Old 01-05-2012, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Gerry Queen
I wouldn't back Zaha and Murray as a partnership unless there is a very big improvement in service from midfield first. We really need someone who is a born finisher and who has a Championship track record for scoring more than 15 goals a season.
A born finisher would struggle with the service our front men have received this season.
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  #88  
Old 01-05-2012, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalin john

Speroni

NewRB Gardner McCarthy Moxey
-----------Jedi-------------
---Ambrose---------Parr----
----------williams----------
-------Murray---Zaha-------

Subs Scannel, O'Keefe, Wright, New CF, New CB

Squad: Price, Marrow, Parsons, De Silva, Pedroza
Put Parr at RB at O'Keefe in the middle. Parr and Moxey can provide added width.

Would be happy to see Murray and Zaha up top, but v interested to see how Sean and Wilf could fare together.
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  #89  
Old 01-05-2012, 11:55 PM
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I do think Wilf suffered most from Lee leaving. Against Leicester 2 years ago I thought that was going to be THE centre forward partnership - just right with Lee to do the physical work leaving them wide open for Zaha.

To be honest, in the championship you don't have to be a particularly good finisher to get 15 / 20 goals a season.

No reason why Zaha can't end up top scorer next season if he gets the right centre forward partner - he's faster than other defenders in this league, has great vision to pick a pass / make runs and no one seems to be able to get the ball off of him.

He really should be the best player in the league next season and it's up to dougie and the rest of the boys to make this happen (if they do then it'll be a very good season indeed).
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  #90  
Old 02-05-2012, 12:00 AM
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Having just seen that video of Doug talking about how he and Clint worked well together up front confuses me. He was clearly very happy playing up front with him, and it seems sensible - having one striker cannot be as dangerous as having two strikers, especially when they know each other's strengths and weaknesses, as DF and CM did. I don't understand why Dougie hasn't given any two strikers an extended run in the team together to get a relationship going.

In the Scannell/Murray argument, I'd say neither have shone this year, and next year they both have more to give. Scannell has played out wide, which isn't really helpful, but for Murray, neither is playing as a lone striker (almost as bad as playing out of position in my view). I wouldn't like to see either moved on, and between those two and Zaha I do think we have enough to score goals next year but if we are to see a quality striker come in, I'd expect we will see more of Sean on the wing.
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  #91  
Old 02-05-2012, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHeagle
Having just seen that video of Doug talking about how he and Clint worked well together up front confuses me. He was clearly very happy playing up front with him, and it seems sensible - having one striker cannot be as dangerous as having two strikers, especially when they know each other's strengths and weaknesses, as DF and CM did. I don't understand why Dougie hasn't given any two strikers an extended run in the team together to get a relationship going.
Wouldn't work for us, simple. We only have one real winger who seems to be better at striker and our midfield is full of players who play one side of the game well thus making it necessary to have 3 of them at the same time in order to have the efficiency of 2.
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Old 02-05-2012, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by the kooch
Wouldn't work for us, simple. We only have one real winger who seems to be better at striker and our midfield is full of players who play one side of the game well thus making it necessary to have 3 of them at the same time in order to have the efficiency of 2.
Could we not have played a sort of 4-2-2-2 though? Have two holding midfielders as we have done throughout the season, keep the attacking wide midfielders in Zaha and Ambrose and then play Scannell up top with Murray? Everyone who was at the Posh game at the start of the year said that they worked very well together.
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  #93  
Old 02-05-2012, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Rhino
So you didn't like the stick Akinbiyi got (not much from what I remember, just a few jokes at his clumsiness) and yet feel Murray deserves it? Whose being two-faced here?

Akinbiyi came into an attacking team and broke up a very successful Dougie and Clinton partnership at the time as well as being our 2nd largest 2.2m transfer fee paid ever by Palace, and so yes the pressure was on for him to perform. Murray was free and came into a team who were bookies favourites to get relegated, and played defensive football all season. There is a difference between the two.
Where did I say Murray deserves stick, I have not booed or heckled him at the ground, I just don't rate him.
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Old 02-05-2012, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akinbiyifan
Really Akinbiyi scored 136 FOOTBALL LEAGUE goals, Murray has 92 (of which only 6 have been scored in the second tier). I don't even think Akinbiyi is good, just didn't like the stick he got at the time, something which Murray has yet to recieve despite being equally dire.
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilbert07
Here...
That doesn't say Murray deserves stick, it says he hasn't recieved stick like Akinbiyi, IMO neither should recieve stick while they are playing.
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:50 AM
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Anyone comparing Glenn Murray with Akinbiyi must have toffee apples for eyes.

Murray had practically no service for a whole season, didn't always start and otherwise subbed.

He was given about 3 good crosses all season.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockles
Anyone comparing Glenn Murray with Akinbiyi must have toffee apples for eyes.

Murray had practically no service for a whole season, didn't always start and otherwise subbed.

He was given about 3 good crosses all season.
He is not great though is he? Do you think he should be a regular? I don't understand how people can hold opinions on players like Scannell, KG and Martin that are accepted as valid, but the moment someone states that they don't think Murray is up to scratch they are thought of as a lunatic.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by akinbiyifan
He is not great though is he? Do you think he should be a regular? I don't understand how people can hold opinions on players like Scannell, KG and Martin that are accepted as valid, but the moment someone states that they don't think Murray is up to scratch they are thought of as a lunatic.
Fair point. He's unproven either way.

However, as that's the position I used to play, for me Murray looks to have the quality needed to do well as a striker. He has the touch, the movement, & anticipation needed. He's not perfect - e.g. he could dominate his marker more, but he has plenty of strengths for the team to play to.

Therefore, based on my own observations, I 'think' he has what it takes - but it's not been proven. At the same time slating him for only getting 6 goals is not on - no striker gets into double figures without real service.

If it were down to me, I wouldn't sell Murray now - I really don't think we'll get better & believe he'll come good if given support.

Last edited by cockles; 02-05-2012 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by akinbiyifan
Can't Murray (28 year old, ex-Brighton, spent most of his career in the non league, scored 6/7 goals playing upfront all season) move on instead of a 21 year old academy graduate who has IMO shown more this season, playing out on the wing for the majority of it, than Murray.
I really think Sean is going to end up being one of those players that plays 200+ games for a club without actually doing anything.

I hope he proves me wrong as I do like him....just think he needed to do better this season.

As for Murray, the service to him has been woeful. Writing off a quality player after one season, without any kind of service (and in and out of the team) vs. a player that has been given so many chances and has never really delivered is a no brainer to me.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Riccardo
I really think Sean is going to end up being one of those players that plays 200+ games for a club without actually doing anything.

I hope he proves me wrong as I do like him....just think he needed to do better this season.

As for Murray, the service to him has been woeful. Writing off a quality player after one season, without any kind of service (and in and out of the team) vs. a player that has been given so many chances and has never really delivered is a no brainer to me.
How can you throw the phrase 'quality player' around when he is 28 years old and completely unproven at Championship level, who is to say Sean would not have scored a bucket full of goals in League 1, and he is only 21. Even Easter scored 18 in one season with MK Dons, I think it is quite a large step up from L1 to Championship.
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