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  #8821  
Old 29-01-2018, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Stirlingsays View Post
Enjoy munching on that strawman.
Er, wtf?
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  #8822  
Old 29-01-2018, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Stirlingsays View Post
Giving credit to Obama for OBL is asinine. Which president exactly wouldn't have done that? I can't think of any US president....except Carter who wouldn't have given that order.

So Obama just did what was expected.....if it hadn't been Obama it would have been someone else....so I don't consider it particularly note worthy in terms of presidential congratulation.
Since 9/11, and the Afghanistan invasion, Bush was never able to get him over his eight year incumbency, so I think some credit is rightfully due to Obama. It was an amazing achievement,

Still waiting for your own comparisons though.
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  #8823  
Old 29-01-2018, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
Since 9/11, and the Afghanistan invasion, Bush was never able to get him over his eight year incumbency, so I think some credit is rightfully due to Obama. It was an amazing achievement,

Still waiting for your own comparisons though.
It's a bit reductionist to think that the changing of the president had any effect upon the hunt for Bid Laden. Luck and a mistake essentially led to his downfall. The president is a figurehead and just gave the order to proceed for that final operation.....something....as I say....every president apart from possibly Carter would have done.

Obama was a poor president, not a terrible one but poor nevertheless from the perpersive of many....Both China and Russia essentially ignored him and his opening plea to Iran at the beginning was cringe.....I could go on and on but I'm not sure why you think I'm required to provide comparisons. If you ask me individual questions about singular topics I'll respond to them.
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  #8824  
Old 29-01-2018, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Stirlingsays View Post
Not really, the statement still stands because those who aren't working aren't having to pay for the ACA...which is a large percentage of the population.... whereas those that are do.....and aren't happy about it as their premiums have gone up considerably......the only ones happy about it are those that have gained something from it.
In fact more working Americans than not are satisfied with the AHCA - which is why Republicans had such difficulty passing Trump's Health Care Act, due to the public outcry.

To view the link you have to Register or Login

The AHCA (Obamacare) is far from perfect but for many people the regulations ensure them the access to health insurance. Yes, in some cases the premiums are high - BUT this is largely down to low uptake amongst healthy people and that low uptake can be somewhat laid at the feet of GOP and their continuing propaganda and attacks on Obamacare.

Also, everyone pays for Obamacare as it's funded through Federal taxation.
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  #8825  
Old 29-01-2018, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Stirlingsays View Post
Giving credit to Obama for OBL is asinine. Which president exactly wouldn't have done that? I can't think of any US president....except Carter who wouldn't have given that order.

So Obama just did what was expected.....if it hadn't been Obama it would have been someone else....so I don't consider it particularly note worthy in terms of presidential congratulation.
I think that's reasonably true, and maybe something notable in the Trump age, that we've taken to looking back on the idea of presidents doing what is expected of them, as something impressive.

Politicians are venal creatures, by nature, claiming credit and qudos for doing what they're expected to do, like a man expecting credit for raising his kids or not beating his wife.

Trump is in the process of lowering the bar of expectation to an all time low.
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  #8826  
Old 29-01-2018, 01:27 PM
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  #8827  
Old 29-01-2018, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Stirlingsays View Post
I can get you arguing against it being an adequate summary but saying it's not a rebuke?

Na, you're just being pedantically silly.
Well it was devoid of any demonstration of thought, intelligence, analysis or fact.
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  #8828  
Old 29-01-2018, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by wavey View Post
In fact more working Americans than not are satisfied with the AHCA - which is why Republicans had such difficulty passing Trump's Health Care Act, due to the public outcry.

To view the link you have to Register or Login

The AHCA (Obamacare) is far from perfect but for many people the regulations ensure them the access to health insurance. Yes, in some cases the premiums are high - BUT this is largely down to low uptake amongst healthy people and that low uptake can be somewhat laid at the feet of GOP and their continuing propaganda and attacks on Obamacare.

Also, everyone pays for Obamacare as it's funded through Federal taxation.
I think this link shows the far more honest and less biased reality of where most people in the US are with the ACA.

Like I said....and for obvious reasons, it depends upon how it affects you.

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  #8829  
Old 29-01-2018, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirlingsays View Post
It's a bit reductionist to think that the changing of the president had any effect upon the hunt for Bid Laden. Luck and a mistake essentially led to his downfall. The president is a figurehead and just gave the order to proceed for that final operation.....something....as I say....every president apart from possibly Carter would have done.
A bit of luck, and a very cleverly conceived covert surveillance program (if some what unethical and immoral use of medical data). The Bush administration weren't exactly efficient, or overly interested in going after Bin Laden; arguably having much bigger issues to deal with - Notably Afghanistan and Iraq. With the scale down of operations under Obama, the capacity to focus manpower elsewhere was more feasible - and arguably politically necessary - The US had to some degree lost its emphasis in Iraq (effectively with Iran having as much influence, the country divided) as well as being seen as retreating in Afghanistan. In the face of the rise of IS, and the ease with which it rolled into the US Client state of Iraq, having killed OBL was vital to Obama.

Getting OBL from a political perspective was necessary, even though in terms of a military success against Al-Qaeda it was largely irrelevant.

Even Carter would have given the order to go ahead. It was a relative no brainer. If it went wrong, the citizens would still have been 'impressed' that the murder of 3000 civilians was high on the US activities, and if it succeded then it was a big win, despite it value militarily and in terms of Islamic fundamentalist threat it was irrelevant.
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  #8830  
Old 29-01-2018, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by rhino_mik View Post
Well it was devoid of any demonstration of thought, intelligence, analysis or fact.
It's a forum post not the Magna Carta......are you trying to pass some small minded critic exam or something?
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  #8831  
Old 29-01-2018, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirlingsays View Post
I think this link shows the far more honest and less biased reality of where most people in the US are with the ACA.

Like I said....and for obvious reasons, it depends upon how it affects you.

To view the link you have to Register or Login
Problem with the ACA is that its not a great system. Problem with its replacement is that its worse, much worse. What the US actually needs is an effective health care program that isn't dependent on private health care companies.

Which it can't afford.
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  #8832  
Old 29-01-2018, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stirlingsays View Post
It's a forum post not the Magna Carta......are you trying to pass some small minded critic exam or something?
If you express an opinion that endeavours to differ from what someone else has posted, it doesn't need to be the Magna Carta; but it may well need a fact or indeed anything to back it up. Otherwise it is, as you might say, "piss poor".

Anyway, welcome to the BBS.
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  #8833  
Old 29-01-2018, 02:21 PM
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So the Don has a lot of problems with the EU according to his interview with Piers Morgan.

Track back a few years and I doubt he would have even heard of them until he tried to build his golf course in Ireland in a protected environmental area. That is his gripe with the EU, little to do with trade.

Try telling Apple and Microsoft that they can’t get their product into the EU.
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  #8834  
Old 29-01-2018, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Stirlingsays View Post
I'm not sure why you think I'm required to provide comparisons. If you ask me individual questions about singular topics I'll respond to them.
Very simple really. You made a very sweeping comment on many of Obama's achievements during his tenure. You said the list was "piss poor", and so that surely deserves more clarity and detail from you, and the easiest way to do that is to compare and contrast other more notable and worthy achievements of other recent presidents. If as you say, presidents are just rubber stamping stuff and luck is a big factor, you may now have painted yourself into a corner on this one.
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  #8835  
Old 29-01-2018, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
If you express an opinion that endeavours to differ from what someone else has posted, it doesn't need to be the Magna Carta; but it may well need a fact or indeed anything to back it up. Otherwise it is, as you might say, "piss poor".

Anyway, welcome to the BBS.


I reserve the right to make 'piss poor' comments....in amongst posts of sheer sublime incisiveness. The balance of which will probably depend upon your level of inebriation.
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  #8836  
Old 29-01-2018, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Stirlingsays View Post


I reserve the right to make 'piss poor' comments....in amongst posts of sheer sublime incisiveness. The balance of which will probably depend upon your level of inebriation.
Bit dull on the hol now is it?
I look forward to your threads on Milo, how men are really badly treated and bleedin foreigners.
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  #8837  
Old 29-01-2018, 02:41 PM
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The only positive thing you can say about Trump is that his deluded vendettas and brainfarts are possibly less bad than some of the real policies of the Republican Right.

And he can be distracted by shiny things and boobs, while someone like Pence, would just plod on until the terrible job was done.
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  #8838  
Old 29-01-2018, 02:42 PM
Stirlingsays Stirlingsays is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
Very simple really. You made a very sweeping comment on many of Obama's achievements during his tenure. You said the list was "piss poor", and so that surely deserves more clarity and detail from you, and the easiest way to do that is to compare and contrast other more notable and worthy achievements of other recent presidents. If as you say, presidents are just rubber stamping stuff and luck is a big factor, you may now have painted yourself into a corner on this one.
Presidents can be judged upon two things.....the touchy feely stuff of public relations....which is mostly fluff....and the serious judgement of how much of their programme they can get through and what the effect of it is......personally I think that once a president is elected that they should be allowed to get most of their programmes through....that way they can be properly judged and the country isn't in lame duck land....something Obama suffered so much of he could have changed his name to Donald and started quacking.

Apart from his affable nature and ability to tell jokes I disliked or shrugged about lots of what Obama did.....he was awful on foreign policy....allowed IS to grow and become a real problem......poor for his country on trade.....did what was unfortunately probably necessary to stabilize the economy......tried with the healthcare system.....all in all...not a good president.

If it's any consolation the US hasn't had a good president in my lifetime....globalization has been screwing them in the arse for decades......Kennedy was looking good but he was before my time......he probably screwed as many things in the arse as he could while he was there before he got screwed in the head himself.

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  #8839  
Old 29-01-2018, 03:38 PM
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wedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is herewedgetail Sam the man is here
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Originally Posted by Stirlingsays View Post


I reserve the right to make 'piss poor' comments....in amongst posts of sheer sublime incisiveness. The balance of which will probably depend upon your level of inebriation.
You achieve your aim admirably.
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  #8840  
Old 29-01-2018, 03:50 PM
Stirlingsays Stirlingsays is offline
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Stirlingsays : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineStirlingsays : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineStirlingsays : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineStirlingsays : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineStirlingsays : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineStirlingsays : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineStirlingsays : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineStirlingsays : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineStirlingsays : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineStirlingsays : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineStirlingsays : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mine
Quote:
Originally Posted by wedgetail View Post
You achieve your aim admirably.
Low hanging fruit.

Or whatever your name is.
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