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  #41  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:36 PM
dogstar721 dogstar721 is offline
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[QUOTE=Am Phibian;14192873]
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post

Defence of your family ok? If someone was burgling my abode that would be my priority and one would have to assume that they do mean harm or at the very least tooled up to inflict harm.

Surely, if i did happen to kill them due to the worry and stress of the situation imposed on me by them had affected my psychology, that would be a decent defence?
That would be a diminished responsibility defence.

Defending your family, of course, but its kind of more important maybe to not put your family in harms way (because it could go the other way, they could kill you in the struggle, and decide then that leaving witnesses is a bad idea).

Your priority and mine are the same thing. The key is whether that defending your family was the cause of the individuals death at your hands, or the excuse. Its pretty key to self defence claims that you didn't intend to kill someone, but that you had no choice but to defend yourself or others from harm and in doing so, killed them.

So for example, if you ever are in this situation, don't say you told your family to stay upstairs, whilst you went an got a machete to go an investigate the noise (shows intent to cause harm), rather state that you picked it up on the way as you became concerned that the noise was an intruder (never say, I heard someone downstairs, so went to confront them - always put an evolving context on your defence - the key is to not sound like you're the kind of guy who's spent years prepairing and planning to kill the first burglar who crosses him).

There is a surprising difference. The prosecution would like claim that in the first instance, you were intending to kill someone or seriously harm them, and had taken actions that would escalate. Where as if you're someone who thinks a cat or rat has gotten into the house, its the actions of a reasonable man, who goes to check and only takes a weapon when he realises its a far more dangerous situation.
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  #42  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolfnipplechips View Post


The BBC report read to me like the suspect ie the murderer (unfortunately) was armed with a knife.

I hope he’s proven innocent and this doesn’t cause him too much grief.
If it's as it sounds, I'm sure he'll be fine.
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  #43  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:38 PM
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I say old chap, nice to you see and all. Did you knock? I did hear banging and breaking glass, but I was rather engrossed in Judge Judy.

Nice balaclava and gloves. I didn't realise it was that cold out - deceiving.

Gosh! That's a nice screwdriver. I've got one just like it. Stanley. Now there's a name you can trust.

And that's a nice wheelbrace your mate has got. Flat tyre? Not fun out here in the cold and dark. Would you like to use the phone to call the AA or someone?

Cash?? No, sorry don't keep it myself.

Valuables?? Sorry, ex-wife ran off with the lot. All I've got is what you see. Can I offer you a cup of coffee to help you on your way?

Sorry, I've just said no cash. I've got a bank card if you've got a chip and pin machine, but you might struggle for a signal out here.

What exactly do mean by 'Hand it over, you c*nt'? Hand what over? I've been very nice to you.

I can see you have got a screwdriver. And a wheelbrace.

Now that's not nice at all. Be careful with that screwdriver or someone might get hurt.

Oh, I'm sorry. I did say be careful. Now you are hurt. Perhaps your mate can help you. Where did he go to?

I'm going to have to ring for help. Hope the Old Bill can sort it out.
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  #44  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:41 PM
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Interesting to see how this pans out. More needs to be divulged before one can decide.
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  #45  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:51 PM
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A burgler holds you at screwdriver point while the other one goes upstairs where your wife is in bed.

I would prefer the police just asked him in for a chat and didn't arrest him at all.. Doesn't seem like there is any need for an arrest unless something suggests otherwise.
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  #46  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:54 PM
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It's a good job our justice system makes decisions based on evidence and not on made-up fantasy stories like lots of people on here.
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  #47  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:58 PM
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if he had read the freebie New shopper last week they had an article about violent gangs of burglars breaking into bhouses in Chislehurst and Keston and terrorising kids and old people violently. Given that and finding two scum in your house in the middle of the night who can blame him? The police really should be trying to catch the other one if they haven't already and not harassing this guy.
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  #48  
Old 04-04-2018, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by TopKnot View Post
It's a good job our justice system makes decisions based on evidence and not on made-up fantasy stories like lots of people on here.
Establish if the man was a burglar unknown to the man and close the case. I am happy with the chap deciding what was justice in his own home. No need for anymore detail for me.
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  #49  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by scro View Post
I am happy with the chap deciding what was justice in his own home.
Ah, a man's home is his castle and he can do whatever he likes in it?

Fortunately, very much not true.
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  #50  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Ah, a man's home is his castle and he can do whatever he likes in it?

Fortunately, very much not true.
Nope the man's home is he and his wifes safe place and if you enter it without permission i am ok with him deciding what is proportionate. Without having to over analyse whether in reality it was.

Even if that results in some loss of life. Much like if you push a bloke that has stolen your phone and he falls of his moped.
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  #51  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:08 PM
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Ah, ok. The only problem with that is that it is the law that decides what is proportionate. And that is probably how it should be.
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  #52  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Ah, ok. The only problem with that is that it is the law that decides what is proportionate. And that is probably how it should be.
Perhaps but i am pretty certain the law will want to analyse beyond what is reasonable and put the poor bloke through more unnecessary stress.

The question should be were you frightened? Yes. Is there any evidence to suggest he wasn't scared? No. No case to answer.
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  #53  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Deadpool View Post
Only in this country you're arrested on suspicion of murder if you've admitted to murdering someone?
so its Murder you think?
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  #54  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Bizarro View Post
Why? I bet he's quite pleased with himself and is looking forward to a heroes homecoming after being treated pretty well at the local Nick.
Depending on who the deceased is, I'd fear the potential repercussions in terms of revenge attacks. I believe Tony Martin had a big bounty placed on his head.
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  #55  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by PalaceForever View Post
Depending on who the deceased is, I'd fear the potential repercussions in terms of revenge attacks. I believe Tony Martin had a big bounty placed on his head.
Hold your horses the real criminal is in custody.
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  #56  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:21 PM
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Nothing much to add on this case as we don't know the circumstances etc. But it's interesting that in parts of the US similar cases would result in a murder charge for the accomplice.
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  #57  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by PalaceForever View Post
Depending on who the deceased is, I'd fear the potential repercussions in terms of revenge attacks. I believe Tony Martin had a big bounty placed on his head.
If this is the same crew that have been robbing the big houses in the Chislehurst area recently, then it's going to be linked to Irish travellers. That's who has fallen under the precise microscope of the bar room briefs in the boozers of SE9 anyway.
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  #58  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:48 PM
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Interesting to see how this pans out. More needs to be divulged before one can decide.
I see what you did there
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  #59  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by scro View Post
Hold your horses the real criminal is in custody.
Needs a wagon wheel not a bounty then.
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Russia demonization. Akin to 1930's Germany.

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  #60  
Old 04-04-2018, 01:53 PM
dogstar721 dogstar721 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davech View Post
I say old chap, nice to you see and all. Did you knock? I did hear banging and breaking glass, but I was rather engrossed in Judge Judy.

Nice balaclava and gloves. I didn't realise it was that cold out - deceiving.

Gosh! That's a nice screwdriver. I've got one just like it. Stanley. Now there's a name you can trust.

And that's a nice wheelbrace your mate has got. Flat tyre? Not fun out here in the cold and dark. Would you like to use the phone to call the AA or someone?

Cash?? No, sorry don't keep it myself.

Valuables?? Sorry, ex-wife ran off with the lot. All I've got is what you see. Can I offer you a cup of coffee to help you on your way?

Sorry, I've just said no cash. I've got a bank card if you've got a chip and pin machine, but you might struggle for a signal out here.

What exactly do mean by 'Hand it over, you c*nt'? Hand what over? I've been very nice to you.

I can see you have got a screwdriver. And a wheelbrace.

Now that's not nice at all. Be careful with that screwdriver or someone might get hurt.

Oh, I'm sorry. I did say be careful. Now you are hurt. Perhaps your mate can help you. Where did he go to?

I'm going to have to ring for help. Hope the Old Bill can sort it out.
Of course if you're the police, what you actually experience is a dead body, and a person who claims they broke in and attacked you. That's almost certainly going to be the same person that called you, and any witnesses are likely to be very biased (wife and kids).

I'm not saying the suspected burglar didn't reap his own whirlwind here - but that when you have a homicide, its better to investigate it on evidence rather than assumptions.
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