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  #1421  
Old 16-04-2018, 03:05 PM
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You do Elgin a disservice. He has a better soh than you give him credit for.
Hmmm, sometimes maybe.
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  #1422  
Old 16-04-2018, 03:09 PM
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Rubbish. Putin has neither the hair nor beard of a hippy.
Wait 'til he comes back from Turkey
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  #1423  
Old 16-04-2018, 03:30 PM
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Hmmm, sometimes maybe.
Downgraded to Rhino dick.
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  #1424  
Old 16-04-2018, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
That used to be the case.

Nowadays we are more likely to believe, it would seem, disinformation than information; foreign-funded trolls rather than our own politicians and conspiracy over common sense.
It'a very worrying trend, that in the vagarities and information vacuums we fail to trust our elected leaderships and instead lean on alternatives sources of information.

In many cases I think our leaderships do little to inspire that trust and history has demonstrably shown them to play fast and loose with the facts - but it's huge step to then distance oneself from the leadership/media and instead trust a competing nation or foreign funded trolls instead. Down this road is the end of democracy.
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  #1425  
Old 16-04-2018, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by wavey View Post
It'a very worrying trend, that in the vagarities and information vacuums we fail to trust our elected leaderships and instead lean on alternatives sources of information.

In many cases I think our leaderships do little to inspire that trust and history has demonstrably shown them to play fast and loose with the facts - but it's huge step to then distance oneself from the leadership/media and instead trust a competing nation or foreign funded trolls instead. Down this road is the end of democracy.
Yep. That's the big mistake of our age. Not trusting politicians, what a slippery slope we are on......
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  #1426  
Old 16-04-2018, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Ghosteagle View Post
Yep. That's the big mistake of our age. Not trusting politicians, what a slippery slope we are on......
Or that we have politicians that we can't trust.
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  #1427  
Old 16-04-2018, 03:57 PM
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There has been a long sequence of events that have discredited liberal western democracy, including Iraq and WMDs, the MPs' expenses scandal, the morally dubious alliance between the Tories and the DUP, Trump's election, the rise of the far right in Hungary, Slovakia, Poland, Austria, Italy, France and Germany, and our very own UKIP and Brexit debacle in this country. In the context of this instability Putin, ever the opportunist, has seized the chance to extend his influence, by both diplomatic and coercive methods. Western liberal democracy is on the back foot, and his strategy makes perfect sense and is probably no worse than what the U.S., among other countries, have done in the recent past.
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  #1428  
Old 16-04-2018, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by wavey View Post
Or that we have politicians that we can't trust.
Herein lies the problem. In politics it seems the shit almost always floats to the top. I have very little faith in our leading politicians and our political systems these days and mostly feel disenfranchised by our two party system. I certainly don't trust the current turdfest that is the Tory Government at all - home or abroad.
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  #1429  
Old 16-04-2018, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by SKATE View Post
Herein lies the problem. In politics it seems the shit almost always floats to the top. I have very little faith in our leading politicians and our political systems these days and mostly feel disenfranchised by our two party system. I certainly don't trust the current turdfest that is the Tory Government at all - home or abroad.
the government is a fiasco, certainly. The opposition just as much (Corbynís response to Syria today in parliament is frankly embarrassing).

Itís depressing.
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  #1430  
Old 16-04-2018, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SKATE View Post
Herein lies the problem. In politics it seems the shit almost always floats to the top. I have very little faith in our leading politicians and our political systems these days and mostly feel disenfranchised by our two party system. I certainly don't trust the current turdfest that is the Tory Government at all - home or abroad.
And in that absence of trust some people run to Breitbart, or Infowars or RT or whatever, sources that with more agenda and less facts and less accountability than the government.
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  #1431  
Old 16-04-2018, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by wavey View Post
And in that absence of trust some people run to Breitbart, or Infowars or RT or whatever, sources that with more agenda and less facts and less accountability than the government.
Exactly.

And many others still assume that somehow the BBC is not authoritative and reliable, despite the fact that over the years - given the thousands of stories it has covered - it has rarely been proved wrong.
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  #1432  
Old 16-04-2018, 04:27 PM
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And in that absence of trust some people run to Breitbart, or Infowars or RT or whatever, sources that with more agenda and less facts and less accountability than the government.
More agenda than the government? It'd be a neat trick.
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  #1433  
Old 16-04-2018, 04:28 PM
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And in that absence of trust some people run to Breitbart, or Infowars or RT or whatever, sources that with more agenda and less facts and less accountability than the government.
Also, Infowars is quite funny.
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  #1434  
Old 16-04-2018, 04:28 PM
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The BBC is a reliable source for what the state wants you to know, especially on foreign and security affairs.
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  #1435  
Old 16-04-2018, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Exactly.

And many others still assume that somehow the BBC is not authoritative and reliable, despite the fact that over the years - given the thousands of stories it has covered - it has rarely been proved wrong.
The vast majority of journalists for our venerated journalistic institutions just want to aggressively report the well sourced truth. Those outlets know that their survival depends on them telling the truth. Much the pity that DT and his "fake news' slurs are tarnishing their reputation.
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  #1436  
Old 16-04-2018, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
There has been a long sequence of events that have discredited liberal western democracy, including Iraq and WMDs, the MPs' expenses scandal, the morally dubious alliance between the Tories and the DUP, Trump's election, the rise of the far right in Hungary, Slovakia, Poland, Austria, Italy, France and Germany, and our very own UKIP and Brexit debacle in this country. In the context of this instability Putin, ever the opportunist, has seized the chance to extend his influence, by both diplomatic and coercive methods. Western liberal democracy is on the back foot, and his strategy makes perfect sense and is probably no worse than what the U.S., among other countries, have done in the recent past.
I like this post. Feels about right.
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  #1437  
Old 16-04-2018, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Elephant with mouse gyp View Post
The BBC is a reliable source for what the state wants you to know, especially on foreign and security affairs.
Oh that's just utter bollocks.

The BBC is not a 'state' medium, and it's so boring to hear that load of cobblers repeated by those who don't like what the Beeb reports.

Might be nice if you provided some evidence of the claim or retracted it.
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  #1438  
Old 16-04-2018, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by wavey View Post
The vast majority of journalists for our venerated journalistic institutions just want to aggressively report the well sourced truth. Those outlets know that their survival depends on them telling the truth. Much the pity that DT and his "fake news' slurs are tarnishing their reputation.
I totally agree, but would exclude Dacre from that.
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  #1439  
Old 16-04-2018, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
There has been a long sequence of events that have discredited liberal western democracy, including Iraq and WMDs, the MPs' expenses scandal, the morally dubious alliance between the Tories and the DUP, Trump's election, the rise of the far right in Hungary, Slovakia, Poland, Austria, Italy, France and Germany, and our very own UKIP and Brexit debacle in this country. In the context of this instability Putin, ever the opportunist, has seized the chance to extend his influence, by both diplomatic and coercive methods. Western liberal democracy is on the back foot, and his strategy makes perfect sense and is probably no worse than what the U.S., among other countries, have done in the recent past.
Good post.
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  #1440  
Old 16-04-2018, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
There has been a long sequence of events that have discredited liberal western democracy...
As compared to what though? The (forgive me KoW) Churchill quote 'Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others' still seems apt.
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