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  #121  
Old 07-12-2010, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Maz
I didn't think that was a definition of democracy.

All I care about is that the right decisions are made : I don't need to know every minutiae of how and why. And I recognise that other people's safety can at times be more important than my 'right to know'.
Even if the right decision is made for the wrong reasons? Nuh uh, that's the same as a wrong decision. And we have a right to know as we vote for these people. We have a right to know that the Iraq enquiry was fudged to protect America. We have a right to know countries will make foreign affair decisions based on commercial contracts and not policy. Absolutely we do
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  #122  
Old 07-12-2010, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by kolinkins
We have a right to know that the Iraq enquiry was fudged to protect America. We have a right to know countries will make foreign affair decisions based on commercial contracts and not policy. Absolutely we do
And we have a right to put other peoples' lives at risk as we sit basking in all of this information?
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  #123  
Old 07-12-2010, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Maz
And we have a right to put other peoples' lives at risk as we sit basking in all of this information?
Who is at risk?

This information is out there anyway - anyone in danger will have already been in danger, wikileaks or not.
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  #124  
Old 07-12-2010, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by kolinkins
Who is at risk?
The Iraqis who helped the coalition forces who were named in the leaks?
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  #125  
Old 07-12-2010, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz
The Iraqis who helped the coalition forces who were named in the leaks?
The people who are a threat to them didn't need wikileaks to motivate them.
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  #126  
Old 07-12-2010, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by kolinkins
The people who are a threat to them didn't need wikileaks to motivate them.
I don't see Wikileaks as a motivational tool either : just one that revealed names.
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  #127  
Old 07-12-2010, 05:28 PM
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Interesting that Assange (the Wikkileaks guy) is suddenly being arrested on some trumped-up charge. What a pile of Bull....do the powers that be take us all for fools?
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  #128  
Old 07-12-2010, 05:31 PM
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Just because we live in a democracy does NOT mean we (and the rest of the world) have a right to know the details of everything that goes on behind closed doors, especially sensitive matters that are confidential for a reason. It means we elect the people we think are best to make the decisions. If we don't like the consequences of their decisions we kick them out.

I am curious to know how much every person in my company earns, or have a look at the internet history of my neighbour. But i can't because of a thing called privacy. I live with that because as a citizen of a democracy i understand the value of the right to privacy.

Why should the world know what contingency plans are in place in the event of x invading y, or the key operational sites for the security of a state? Why is this not a private matter?

If there is reason to beleive ACTUAL wrong doing then follow the legal channels. If the leaks are meant to embarass and sensationalise then i do not support them.
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  #129  
Old 07-12-2010, 05:34 PM
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  #130  
Old 07-12-2010, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FraserH
just ignore maz he is trying to get people to bite as per every thread Maz posts on
I do. 1000 posts per month of what exactly?

This is quite good
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  #131  
Old 07-12-2010, 06:03 PM
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I do.
I wish more people would follow your lead.

I hate debating with idiots.
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  #132  
Old 07-12-2010, 06:06 PM
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  #133  
Old 07-12-2010, 06:10 PM
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The Times Editorial had this right this morning. Unfortunately I can't link to it because of their stupid pay wall.

There is information that shames Government and then there is information that merely puts people's lives at risk. It brings into question what Wikileaks' objective is. Do they want to do some good or is it just vanity.

I also wonder what the truth is in Assange's arrest. It seems like a big coincidence to be arrested for sexual assault and rape shortly after revealing embarrassing secrets about the world's superpowers.
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  #134  
Old 07-12-2010, 06:13 PM
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  #135  
Old 07-12-2010, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crofty
Interesting that Assange (the Wikkileaks guy) is suddenly being arrested on some trumped-up charge. What a pile of Bull....do the powers that be take us all for fools?
One wonders what the USA offered the Swedes to bring trumped up charges against him. The USA will pursue this guy in the same way that they're pursuing the English guy who hacked into their files and the way in which they kidnapped anyone they thought was sympathetic to Islamic funadmentalism, tortured them and kept them locked up without trial.

Governments leak all the time as a matter of course. And that includes the USA.
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  #136  
Old 07-12-2010, 06:34 PM
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Who gives a flying f*** what those medieval morons think about our prime minister. Im sure its nothing compared to what most Britains think of the parade of useless tossers they keep electing.
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  #137  
Old 07-12-2010, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IpswichEagle
Just because we live in a democracy does NOT mean we (and the rest of the world) have a right to know the details of everything that goes on behind closed doors, especially sensitive matters that are confidential for a reason. It means we elect the people we think are best to make the decisions. If we don't like the consequences of their decisions we kick them out.
Yes, we elect governments to represent our interests. However, I don't see how this gives a government a 'right' to secrecy. Quite the opposite in fact. We have a much greater right to know what is being done on our behalf.

That said, we can decide that government can operate more effectively if certain matters are are kept confidential. Society, at least temporarily, gives up its right to transparency in the name of good government. This does not create a right to privacy for the government.

Quote:
I am curious to know how much every person in my company earns, or have a look at the internet history of my neighbour. But i can't because of a thing called privacy. I live with that because as a citizen of a democracy i understand the value of the right to privacy.
Individuals have a right to privacy. I don't think that necessarily extends to government.

Quote:
Why should the world know what contingency plans are in place in the event of x invading y, or the key operational sites for the security of a state? Why is this not a private matter?
Because the workings of government are not a private matter. They are a public matter.

Quote:
If there is reason to beleive ACTUAL wrong doing then follow the legal channels.
I agree. Arresting someone on a freedom of speech issue on, possibly trumped up, unrelated charges is not an appropriate legal channel.

Quote:
If the leaks are meant to embarass and sensationalise then i do not support them.
Fair enough, but I am concerned when governments feel they have a right to withhold information from their electorate simply because it is embarrassing.
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  #138  
Old 07-12-2010, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IpswichEagle
Just because we live in a democracy does NOT mean we (and the rest of the world) have a right to know the details of everything that goes on behind closed doors, especially sensitive matters that are confidential for a reason. It means we elect the people we think are best to make the decisions. If we don't like the consequences of their decisions we kick them out.
I am curious to know how much every person in my company earns, or have a look at the internet history of my neighbour. But i can't because of a thing called privacy. I live with that because as a citizen of a democracy i understand the value of the right to privacy. Why should the world know what contingency plans are in place in the event of x invading y, or the key operational sites for the security of a state? Why is this not a private matter?

If there is reason to beleive ACTUAL wrong doing then follow the legal channels. If the leaks are meant to embarass and sensationalise then i do not support them.
This.
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  #139  
Old 07-12-2010, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonboy
Fair enough, but I am concerned when governments feel they have a right to withhold information from their electorate simply because it is embarrassing.
The government is not an abstract concept or a separate body ; in a democracy it is the people.

If something affects a relationship between our government and another state then ultimately the people are the ones who will suffer.

(I hate being on the side of the devils).
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  #140  
Old 07-12-2010, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
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(I hate being on the side of the devils).
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