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  #61  
Old 15-05-2018, 11:29 AM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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“Tragic events on the Gaza border; all civilian deaths are regrettable. Hamas must accept responsibility for these events. Their successful attempt to hijack peaceful protest as cover to attack Israeli border communities must be condemned by all who seek peace in the Middle East.”

This along with their Breitbart posts the group should be thrown out of Labour. Remember this is their official response not some rogue member. Also repeated Breitbart posts have been accepted.
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  #62  
Old 15-05-2018, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Blue Eagle View Post
Telling piece on the BBC 10 o'clock last night at a seemingly annual march by had line Israeli's through Jerusalem to celebrate capturing it (think Orange marchers through Catholic areas for context) Jeremy Bowen asked one how to resolve the situation and he kept referring to "arabs". Bowen pushed him as to why he didn't say "Palestinians" and in the end he said words to the effect that there was no such thing as a Palestinian as there was no such country.

This is how far apart these two peoples' words are, and as long as Nethanyanu and his corrupt cronies are in power, now backed by Trump, it is not going to get any better.
The ridiculousness of that statement can be seen in looking at how largely indifferent and unsupportive many other Arab countries are towards Palestinians.
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  #63  
Old 15-05-2018, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
“Tragic events on the Gaza border; all civilian deaths are regrettable. Hamas must accept responsibility for these events. Their successful attempt to hijack peaceful protest as cover to attack Israeli border communities must be condemned by all who seek peace in the Middle East.”
.
You describe this as "absolutely vile"? I don't. I think it would have been helpful if they'd inserted the word "some" between accept and responsibility. But not absolutely vile.
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  #64  
Old 15-05-2018, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Baffled Bob 2 View Post
You describe this as "absolutely vile"? I don't. I think it would have been helpful if they'd inserted the word "some" between accept and responsibility. But not absolutely vile.
There's no doubt that Hamas are responsible, and that this is what they wanted, but Israel is responsible for their response. There's a good piece in the Jewish Chronicle on this.

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Worth reading in full but key passage

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I know that Hamas has orchestrated these attempts to breach the barrier. I know that Hamas has offered stipends to the families of those killed or wounded in these protests, in the same way that it gives stipends to the families of those who have died while carrying out terror attacks against Israelis. I understand why Israel cannot allow these protestors to cross the border.

But every bullet Israel fires, every life Israel takes, makes this situation worse. There are ways to disperse crowds which do not include live fire. But the IDF has made an active choice to fire live rounds and kill scores of people. You cannot tell me that Israel, a land of technological miracles which have to be seen to be truly believed, is incapable of coming up with a way of incapacitating protestors that does not include gunning dozens of them down. But no. In front of the entire world, Israel keeps shooting, and protestors, including those younger than my friend Gal was in 2002, keep dying. You may tell me that Hamas wants these deaths, wants to create martyrs, wants to fill the hearts of the people of Gaza with rage against Israel because the alternative is for people to look at their lives in Gaza and rage against Hamas. But if you tell me that, why are you not asking yourselves why Israel is so willingly giving Hamas exactly what it wishes?
Israel has other options. It is responsible for not taking them and for the lives it has chosen to take instead.
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  #65  
Old 15-05-2018, 11:50 AM
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Much like this thread, the Palestine-Israel issue divides opinion and entrenches a stance. There seems to be no middle ground.
I am sceptical of media reporting. Every report seems to have an angle. Everything from Iraq's weapons of mass-destruction to Megan Merkle's dad doing his own photoshoot.
Can we even believe our (ex) Home Office Minster, and the figures she didn't use for immigration ?

In my simplistic world (devoid of party politics), I happen to think the indiscriminate shooting of people by armed forces as a massive over-reaction to a 'perceived threat', inhuman and illegal.

And the real question everyone wants the answer to,....is Megan's dad going to turn up for the wedding ?
Of course he is,.....but there's no manipulation by the press, is there ?

Last edited by foresthillbilly; 15-05-2018 at 11:55 AM.
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  #66  
Old 15-05-2018, 11:54 AM
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It’s also the reason why right wingers in the U.K. and the U.S smear people as anti Semite.
Palestinians are Semites too though.
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  #67  
Old 15-05-2018, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
There's no doubt that Hamas are responsible, and that this is what they wanted, but Israel is responsible for their response. There's a good piece in the Jewish Chronicle on this.

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Israel has other options. It is responsible for not taking them and for the lives it has chosen to take instead.
Hamas are responsible for this in the same way the Marquis were responsible for the execution of French civilians by the Germans. Israel has failed to respond to the UN and the world community over Palestine and the Palestinian plight, utilising force as a means of occupation and suppression of a people.

The whole situation could easily have been avoided as well. There was no need for a move to Jerusalem and the Israeli's could have politely denied the request. Everyone knew what would happen, and that in making this move, that effectively any progress towards a peaceful solution was destroyed. There is a reason why every other country in the world doesn't have its embassy in Jerusalem and instead in Tel Aviv.
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  #68  
Old 15-05-2018, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
You do note that this annual march predates Hamas existing?

Killing a baby and amputee is in your view the fault of Hamas. Amazing and disgusting in equal measures.

This is a population that has been imprisoned for over a decade.
Arguably they've been occupied to some extent since 1948.
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  #69  
Old 15-05-2018, 12:04 PM
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Only one side wants peace and only one side would compromise to get it....Hamas has this on themselves...but why the bullets Israel's government are they really this stupid.

Last edited by in-exile; 15-05-2018 at 12:07 PM.
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  #70  
Old 15-05-2018, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by stamford triumph View Post
So the brave Hamas leaders send their young citizens (always including children) into battle and once more claim the moral high ground. Of course they had no idea that sending them across the border would result in casualties. And of course, the BBC quote their casualty figures as fact without any further checks. Believe what you want to believe.
The same verification when figures are quoted by the other sides? Why not not shoot them and use tear gas or barricades or water cannons. Better still don't do something that you know full well is going to cause civil unrest then react as if it is a shock. Disgusting action by Trump the clown. 3rd world war according to nostradamus statrs in Middle East
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  #71  
Old 15-05-2018, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
There was no need for a move to Jerusalem
In the end this is it really. I know it's only symbolic but symbols matter. What a pointlessly inflammatory thing to do.
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  #72  
Old 15-05-2018, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by in-exile View Post
Only one side wants peace and only one side would compromise to get it....Hamas has this on themselves...but why the bullets Israel's government are they really this stupid.
Disagree. The extremes on both sides seem to want to humiliate the other.

We need the centrist dad's of the region to rise up. We always know best.
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  #73  
Old 15-05-2018, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Blue Eagle View Post
Telling piece on the BBC 10 o'clock last night at a seemingly annual march by had line Israeli's through Jerusalem to celebrate capturing it (think Orange marchers through Catholic areas for context) Jeremy Bowen asked one how to resolve the situation and he kept referring to "arabs". Bowen pushed him as to why he didn't say "Palestinians" and in the end he said words to the effect that there was no such thing as a Palestinian as there was no such country.

This is how far apart these two peoples' words are, and as long as Nethanyanu and his corrupt cronies are in power, now backed by Trump, it is not going to get any better.
I was shocked by that on the news last night. Anybody who wants to check out the exact quote ("..there's no such thing as a Palestinian people. There never has been.") from Daniel Luria, Jewish Settlement Activist, you can find it here at 6:43 at least until 10.30pm tonight when it will no longer be available on iPlayer:

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  #74  
Old 15-05-2018, 12:12 PM
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It's pretty obvious that the hawkish right wing and religious zealots in Israel see the Palestinians are verminous and by killing them are helping to control the pest.

Has there ever been a bigger irony?
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  #75  
Old 15-05-2018, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Am Phibian View Post
It's pretty obvious that the hawkish right wing and religious zealots in Israel see the Palestinians are verminous and by killing them are helping to control the pest.

Has there ever been a bigger irony?
It's a crime in some country's to deny the Holocaust.

However, killing some homeless 'arabs' seems acceptable
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  #76  
Old 15-05-2018, 12:31 PM
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Stop embarrassing yourself and using these tragic deaths to promote some warped political score you have with those who legitimately point out the anti-semitism wthin the UK Labour party .
Oh dear.
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  #77  
Old 15-05-2018, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Far East Eagle View Post
The reason Israel screams 'anti-semitism' at any criticism of their government's actions is precisely for these type of situations.
I must say I agree. Any criticism of any thing Israeli is called antisemitic even Mossad actions. I only care about fairness justice and humanity. What is going on now is a power struggle. Unfortunstely the media will support the Israeli viewpoint more than any other. Which mean s we will not know if we are getting all the facts
Its funny in a weird way one van be islamaphpnic with less repercussions.
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  #78  
Old 15-05-2018, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by in-exile View Post
Only one side wants peace and only one side would compromise to get it....Hamas has this on themselves...but why the bullets Israel's government are they really this stupid.
The Israel government certainly does want peace; of a very particular kind. And it certainly doesn't involve compromise.
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  #79  
Old 15-05-2018, 12:39 PM
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Palestinians are Semites too though.
Don't do this
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  #80  
Old 15-05-2018, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
Arguably they've been occupied to some extent since 1948.
The pretence of a Palestine and these people being kept where they are is to serve a political purpose, they could have been rehomed by neighbouring countries particularly Jordan and Syria as they share a common blood.
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