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  #101  
Old 16-04-2018, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
Surely, there must be a simple solution for the home office to accept that the citizens in question have been here for years without needing to prove for every individual year? National insurance, income tax, passport, employers, pension contributions, driving licence, medical records, utility bills, mobile phones, council tax, child benefits, dole etc. The government should appoint individual case workers to look at and obtain documentation and set a very low threshold e.g one of the above and then close the case, confer definite citizenship rights and ensure they haven't lost out on pension entitlements or anything else.
Well yes, in a functioning government that isn't pandering to it's righter than right wing elements, of course this, or something like this, would be the correct way to go about it, if they must go about it at all that is.
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  #102  
Old 16-04-2018, 07:31 PM
Nth Kent Eagle Nth Kent Eagle is offline
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Originally Posted by CT_Palace View Post
Well yes, in a functioning government that isn't pandering to it's righter than right wing elements, of course this, or something like this, would be the correct way to go about it, if they must go about it at all that is.
Do you have national identity cards in Chile?
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  #103  
Old 16-04-2018, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
Do you have national identity cards in Chile?
yes we do.
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  #104  
Old 16-04-2018, 07:36 PM
Nth Kent Eagle Nth Kent Eagle is offline
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Originally Posted by CT_Palace View Post
yes we do.
Just wondering if you thought that might help in these situations? If everyone in the UK who owned property, had a bank account, claimed entitlements etc had either a national identity card or a national identity number for non residents (like in Spain) then there would be a categoric record that would mean situations like this don't occur.
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  #105  
Old 16-04-2018, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by CT_Palace View Post
WTAF???

Disgraceful. Absolutely disgraceful.
It's the guilty until proven innocent stance that is really revolting.
You've never dealt with the Home Office, HMRC or DWP?
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  #106  
Old 16-04-2018, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Actually you are doing an excellent job of substituting for the Biggot.
When did he get the chop? I missed that.
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  #107  
Old 16-04-2018, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
Just wondering if you thought that might help in these situations? If everyone in the UK who owned property, had a bank account, claimed entitlements etc had either a national identity card or a national identity number for non residents (like in Spain) then there would be a categoric record that would mean situations like this don't occur.
Well, you'd think the Home Office granting somebody indefinite leave to remain would also be a categorical record that would mean situations like this don't occur, but...
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  #108  
Old 16-04-2018, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
Just wondering if you thought that might help in these situations? If everyone in the UK who owned property, had a bank account, claimed entitlements etc had either a national identity card or a national identity number for non residents (like in Spain) then there would be a categoric record that would mean situations like this don't occur.
Since I left the UK I have lived in 5 different countries. 4 of which required I register for and subsequently carry, an ID card.
It's always been a huge mystery to me why the UK doesn't have a similar requirement.
Australia was the odd one out, maybe because of it's historical governmental system links with the UK? Never really thought about it.
But having carried one for most of the last 30 years or so I don't have any issue with it, especially if it can be used as per your suggestion.
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Last edited by CT_Palace; 16-04-2018 at 09:51 PM.
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  #109  
Old 16-04-2018, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by CT_Palace View Post
If only what these poor people are being asked to do was as simple as to show their passport!
It's a total disgrace!

Under what circumstances were you asked to prove your citizenship if you don't mind me asking?
Was it based on color and race? Because that, in simple terms, is what is happening here.
Iíve said in both my posts that the rules seem to be excessive. But it isnít that difficult to get confirmation where you went to school, and getting a print out of annual NI contributions is simple. It sounds like the Home Office could be more helpful to these applicants and provide guidance/assistance.

I had to demonstrate British citizenship for a work-related reason today, so showing my passport was the simplest way. Nothing to do with colour or race..I was asked in advance to bring it by people who hadnít met me before.
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  #110  
Old 16-04-2018, 08:03 PM
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The total incompetence of Home Office staff on this is beyond belief. It's shameful.
Are they incapable of raising concerns that something is not right. This situation should never have arisen.
I can guarantee that no high ranking civil servant will be dismissed, a case of "only following policy"
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  #111  
Old 16-04-2018, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
I’ve said in both my posts that the rules seem to be excessive. But it isn’t that difficult to get confirmation where you went to school, and getting a print out of annual NI contributions is simple. It sounds like the Home Office could be more helpful to these applicants and provide guidance/assistance.

I had to demonstrate British citizenship for a work-related reason today, so showing my passport was the simplest way. Nothing to do with colour or race..I was asked in advance to bring it by people who hadn’t met me before.
They don’t “seem to be”, they most definitely ARE excessive.
At least in the examples aired publicly
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Last edited by CT_Palace; 16-04-2018 at 08:07 PM.
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  #112  
Old 16-04-2018, 08:09 PM
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Nothing to do with incompetence, it is laziness. May ordered a "get tough on immigration" program to appease the bigots, the civil service, as always, went not for the diificult cases but the easiest.
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  #113  
Old 16-04-2018, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by norwoodeagle View Post
The total incompetence of Home Office staff on this is beyond belief. It's shameful.
Are they incapable of raising concerns that something is not right. This situation should never have arisen.
I can guarantee that no high ranking civil servant will be dismissed, a case of "only following policy"
What's the betting that the need to meet a quota is involved in this.
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  #114  
Old 16-04-2018, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by norwoodeagle View Post
The total incompetence of Home Office staff on this is beyond belief. It's shameful.
Are they incapable of raising concerns that something is not right. This situation should never have arisen.
I can guarantee that no high ranking civil servant will be dismissed, a case of "only following policy"
And what about the woman under whose watch these policies were put in place?
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  #115  
Old 16-04-2018, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by norwoodeagle View Post
I can guarantee that no high ranking civil servant will be dismissed, a case of "only following policy"
The advice from high ranking civil servants was not to go down this road. May ignored all the advice.
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  #116  
Old 16-04-2018, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by CT_Palace View Post
Since I left the UK I have lived in 5 different countries. 4 of which required I register for and subsequently carry, a national ID card.
It's always been a huge mystery to me why the UK doesn't have a similar requirement.
Australia was the odd one out, maybe because of it's historical governmental system links with the UK? Never really thought about it.
But having carried one for most of the last 30 years or so I don't have any issue with it, especially if it can be used as per your suggestion.
We have 85% passport coverage in the UK. It would be reasonably easy to make passports compulsory and provide for free those who can't afford to pay. Identify card debate solved.

The yanks have a "passport card" that you can apply for (maybe you had one) to use as identify but you don't want to carry your passport.
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  #117  
Old 16-04-2018, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Let's start from the very, beginning ; a very good place to start.

Do you dispute this...

To prove they are living in the country legally, people in this situation must currently apply for No Time Limit (NTL) status at a cost of £229.
They must provide documentation for every year they have been in the country, which can include payslips, bank statements and educational or medical records
I wouldn't be able to do that,no way, and i am a white bloke born in Bromley.It would be reasonable to think that the fact i have a national insurance no and been paying tax that the government would have access to enough evidence without my help? I haven't been to doctors for about 12 or so years so dont think much documentation available there,gave up keeping endless amounts of old bank statements years ago(shredded) and dont get em now bank online(could print copies from current bank but not the previous bank accounts,wouldn't even know which banks now!)Payslips again old ones long gone,currently get em online to works email so if i left wouldn't even have access to these!
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  #118  
Old 16-04-2018, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
We have 85% passport coverage in the UK. It would be reasonably easy to make passports compulsory and provide for free those who can't afford to pay. Identify card debate solved.

The yanks have a "passport card" that you can apply for (maybe you had one) to use as identify but you don't want to carry your passport.
Indeed. There are solutions.

Whilst there is no national ID card in the US, the individual State driver's license doubles up as the ID card. If you don't drive you have to get a similar card just not valid for driving.
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  #119  
Old 17-04-2018, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
You don't think it's a little outrageous that a long-time British citizen should be asked to prove he's a British citizen?
Its not unusual to have to show documentation to prove who you are. Different documents depending on the circumstance.

Your outrage is misplaced, try to think your sentence through again.
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  #120  
Old 17-04-2018, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by CT_Palace View Post
If only what these poor people are being asked to do was as simple as to show their passport!
It's a total disgrace!

Under what circumstances were you asked to prove your citizenship if you don't mind me asking?
Was it based on color and race? Because that, in simple terms, is what is happening here.
Are we to assume that on entry to Chile all you had to say was, I'm a British Citizen.

"That's all right chum, go through no need to see your passport".
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