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  #19781  
Old 20-05-2018, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
the Tories don’t have a majority now so they cannot have a bigger one than they have now.

You’ve predicted something that is impossible.
And the pedant of the week award goes to...
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  #19782  
Old 20-05-2018, 09:11 PM
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And the pedant of the week award goes to...
Your casual regard for facts is but one reason why your posts are sometimes viewed as more fantasy than reality.
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  #19783  
Old 20-05-2018, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by legaleagle2 View Post
Well,it certainly illustrates that there are some grade A anti-semitic pri+ks about in our midst in the UK nowadays who are getting increasingly confident about coming into the open,something that would hopefully get all on here frothing...
Of course and Labour has to do it's part but its talked about like Labour is completley responsible for the rise in anti-semitism and racism in the country.

I don't have any issue with anyone vehermently going after any anti-semites especially in the Labour party whoever that means going after.

My disappointment is that for example, some suggest that when the Tories turn a blind eye to some racism by a candidate thats political pragmatism as it won them a council but expect Labour to be responsible for anyone who has even ever shown a passing interest in the party.

Then, when an independent poll found that attitudes towards Jewish people amongst Labour supporters was actually less than it had been before and not significantly larger than other parties. The response was but thats supporters not members!

The facts are

Racists feel enabled because of the political climate on the left and right.

Sections of the regressive, conspiratorial left are anti-semitic and currently support Labour/ have become Labour members because of a left wing leader.

That leader has failed to take anti-semitism seriously and needs to do that.

Its an on-going process and there needs to be zero tollerance and an on going open dialogue with jewish groups being the leading voices in that.
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  #19784  
Old 20-05-2018, 09:30 PM
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If a vote of no confidence brings down the government they are very unlikely to do better in a general election.

On another note the blairite chair of Lewisham East CLP put out this in a tweet:

“Emily Thornberry is too old for ISIS. They won’t make a sex slave of her. They’ll behead her and dump her in a mass grave”.
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  #19785  
Old 20-05-2018, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Kidofwonder View Post
Of course and Labour has to do it's part but its talked about like Labour is completley responsible for the rise in anti-semitism and racism in the country.

I don't have any issue with anyone vehermently going after any anti-semites especially in the Labour party whoever that means going after.

My disappointment is that for example, some suggest that when the Tories turn a blind eye to some racism by a candidate thats political pragmatism as it won them a council but expect Labour to be responsible for anyone who has even ever shown a passing interest in the party.

Then, when an independent poll found that attitudes towards Jewish people amongst Labour supporters was actually less than it had been before and not significantly larger than other parties. The response was but thats supporters not members!

The facts are

Racists feel enabled because of the political climate on the left and right.

Sections of the regressive, conspiratorial left are anti-semitic and currently support Labour/ have become Labour members because of a left wing leader.

That leader has failed to take anti-semitism seriously and needs to do that.

Its an on-going process and there needs to be zero tollerance and an on going open dialogue with jewish groups being the leading voices in that.
Zero tolerance on all sides is the correct answer,I'd say

Speaking as a Labour supporter who does not start from a standpoint of demonising Corbyn (though I prefer McDonnell as a politician)not so sure its as simple as entryism though that's not a non existent factor.

Anti-semitism is more prevalent on the far right ..but any outbreak of it on the left is just so disappointing and soul destroying...
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  #19786  
Old 20-05-2018, 09:45 PM
legaleagle2 legaleagle2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
If a vote of no confidence brings down the government they are very unlikely to do better in a general election.

On another note the blairite chair of Lewisham East CLP put out this in a tweet:

“Emily Thornberry is too old for ISIS. They won’t make a sex slave of her. They’ll behead her and dump her in a mass grave”.

What a pillock to say that...

Another interesting tweet:

"Awful tweet & Ian must apologise. However, I think this is 2 years old; is it now relevant because he is a ‘Blairite’? Takes two to to tango and two sides to continue this running battle which will condemn @UKLabour to permanent opposition and betray those we should be helping."

Last edited by legaleagle2; 20-05-2018 at 09:51 PM.
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  #19787  
Old 20-05-2018, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legaleagle2 View Post
Zero tolerance on all sides is the correct answer,I'd say

Speaking as a Labour supporter who does not start from a standpoint of demonising Corbyn (though I prefer McDonnell as a politician)not so sure its as simple as entryism though that's not a non existent factor.

Anti-semitism is more prevalent on the far right ..but any outbreak of it on the left is just so disappointing and soul destroying...
Members are getting expelled for anti Semitism. Personally I would like, in milder cases, for people to be given a chance to apologise and genuinely change their views. But any outright stuff and they have to go.

Corbyn has totally condemned anti Semitism and I guess the proof is whether nothing is done to members who are found to have done something. Is there any evidence of that? Indeed in the case of Marc W he shouldn’t have been expelled.
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  #19788  
Old 20-05-2018, 10:07 PM
legaleagle2 legaleagle2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Members are getting expelled for anti Semitism. Personally I would like, in milder cases, for people to be given a chance to apologise and genuinely change their views. But any outright stuff and they have to go.

Corbyn has totally condemned anti Semitism and I guess the proof is whether nothing is done to members who are found to have done something. Is there any evidence of that? Indeed in the case of Marc W he shouldn’t have been expelled.
Whether MW should have been expelled is a matter for legitimate debate. But he is plainly,I would say, a grade A jerk who acted in an unbelievably dumb and unacceptable way at the launch of a party report on anti-semitism and racism within the party, and has associated with some clear anti-semites in the past.Choose martyrs with care...If he were a Blairite and had acted the same way,I wonder how many of those defending him would have done so...

Last edited by legaleagle2; 20-05-2018 at 10:10 PM.
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  #19789  
Old 20-05-2018, 10:08 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legaleagle2 View Post
What a pillock to say that...

Another interesting tweet:

"Awful tweet & Ian must apologise. However, I think this is 2 years old; is it now relevant because he is a ‘Blairite’? Takes two to to tango and two sides to continue this running battle which will condemn @UKLabour to permanent opposition and betray those we should be helping."
He’s an experienced activist. He should be expelled. He followed it up with:

“Indeed maybe she’d agree sex slavery to one man only, provided he didn’t sell her on or insist on gang rape.”

Absolutely vile.
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  #19790  
Old 20-05-2018, 10:09 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legaleagle2 View Post
Whether MW should have been expelled is a matter for legitimate debate. But,he is plainly,I* would say, a grade A jerk who acted in an unbelievably dumb and unacceptable way and has associated with some clear anti-semites in the past.Choose martyrs with care...
I totally agree but he shouldn’t have been expelled.
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  #19791  
Old 20-05-2018, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
If a vote of no confidence brings down the government they are very unlikely to do better in a general election.

On another note the blairite chair of Lewisham East CLP put out this in a tweet:

“Emily Thornberry is too old for ISIS. They won’t make a sex slave of her. They’ll behead her and dump her in a mass grave”.
Seriously this is what the Labour party has become one vile tweet after another with the CLP's led by who knows, but when it gets to the stage where you struggle to defend either side right or left in Labour how the hell is anyone going to support them in an election. Before worrying about trying to lead the country maybe Labour needs to learn how to hold a party together right versus left , left versus right , left versus left, Unite versus Momentum. Its crazy that you can even expect Labour to hold together. Its crazy that you expect anyone to vote for them incompetent in virtually every aspect .
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  #19792  
Old 20-05-2018, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
I totally agree but he shouldn’t have been expelled.
Unfortunately I (and I suspect you) have not had access to a transcript of the hearing and the fuller picture...
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  #19793  
Old 20-05-2018, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by legaleagle2 View Post
Unfortunately I (and I suspect you) have not had access to a transcript of the hearing and the fuller picture...
Fair point. And he isn’t someone I’d go to town over either.
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  #19794  
Old 20-05-2018, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N Herts Eagle View Post
Seriously this is what the Labour party has become one vile tweet after another with the CLP's led by who knows, but when it gets to the stage where you struggle to defend either side right or left in Labour how the hell is anyone going to support them in an election. Before worrying about trying to lead the country maybe Labour needs to learn how to hold a party together right versus left , left versus right , left versus left, Unite versus Momentum. Its crazy that you can even expect Labour to hold together. Its crazy that you expect anyone to vote for them incompetent in virtually every aspect .
Expel anyone with reactionary views like this or anti Semitic etc

Then we need loads of reselections for the reason Jason outlined.

Lewisham East is a right wing bastion so we got another right wing mp selected for the by election. The other two clps are run by the left.

The right of the party won’t accept a socialist led Labour Party. They will have coups, and work with the right wing press to make sure the tories win.

The left need far more representation in the plp to reflect the views of the membership.
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  #19795  
Old 20-05-2018, 10:21 PM
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[QUOTE=Heb 7:4;14264695]Baddiel getting it from the "how dare you suggest we're anti-Semitic" crowd today.

That image is very offensive, just to prove a point you made
Hes not a Labour member
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  #19796  
Old 20-05-2018, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Art132 View Post
That image is very offensive, just to prove a point you made
Hes not a Labour member
I never said s/he was. It's an anonymous relentlessly pro-Corbyn account, which has consistently spoken in terms of being Labour, eg:

Quote:
maybe you should just join the Tories @ChrisLeslieMP

real labour is obviously not the party for you

we don`t need snipers thanks
sod off
But since people are now calling for them to be expelled from Labour the account is claiming they're not a member. I've no idea if it's true or a nervous attempt to stop people trying to identify who they are. Could easily be either.

But the issue is that it's just one of many Corbyn fans who act similarly. If you want recent examples of members, even candidates, I'll be happy to provide them. It doesn't change the question - what has Labour actually done since moving from "there's no problem, it's all a smear to hurt Jeremy" to "OK, there is a problem"?
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  #19797  
Old 20-05-2018, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
I never said s/he was. It's an anonymous relentlessly pro-Corbyn account, which has consistently spoken in terms of being Labour, eg:



But since people are now calling for them to be expelled from Labour the account is claiming they're not a member. I've no idea if it's true or a nervous attempt to stop people trying to identify who they are. Could easily be either.

But the issue is that it's just one of many Corbyn fans who act similarly. If you want recent examples of members, even candidates, I'll be happy to provide them. It doesn't change the question - what has Labour actually done since moving from "there's no problem, it's all a smear to hurt Jeremy" to "OK, there is a problem"?
Suspended people, expelled people, denounced it. What else do you want done?
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  #19798  
Old 21-05-2018, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Suspended people, expelled people, denounced it. What else do you want done?
Tories and bitter Blairites like Heb don't give a damn about anti-semitism, they just use it as a stick to beat Corbyn with. That is what I find deeply anti-semitic.
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  #19799  
Old 21-05-2018, 08:44 AM
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Maybe because he beat two lots of candidates by landslides and survived petty coups, then took Labour to its best standing for years? Imagine if he didn't have the tory lies ringing in his ears every day. But yeah, you're right, he's clearly terrible. He's just been really really lucky.
he was only put on the ballot last minute as a laugh by the moderates who wanted a hard line lefty for balance. I even know my Labour Party history better than you
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Old 21-05-2018, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Putting their country ahead of their party, you mean? Disgraceful.


its not as if they are throwing their seats and the Govt away over going to War or something. Its against the risk that a system of trusting companies to do the right thing until technology catches up is such a bad thing and we'll lose so much revenue as a country that we'll all starve to death. That or they are so desperate that Brexit must be stopped at all costs so they can bore people to death for ever that they were correct all along
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