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  #861  
Old 09-07-2016, 07:38 AM
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Ian Hislop's flabby turkey neck just get's bigger and bigger.
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  #862  
Old 09-07-2016, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by tuzza_cpfc View Post
errrr wrong, bellend.

Tory Party members are electing their leader.
Ummmm, not sure if you're being dumb or willfully ignorant.
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  #863  
Old 09-07-2016, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by rhino_mik View Post
Ummmm, not sure if you're being dumb or willfully ignorant.
What have I said that's wrong?

The public elect MPs, not Prime Ministers.

So whining about how the next PM will be unelected is pissing in the wind.

The Tory Party members are electing THEIR LEADER, not the PM. The candidates are already elected as MPs.

Just because the leader of the party usually gets to be PM if their party has the most MPs, does not mean that Tory Party members are electing the PM.

LMAO, muppets on here don't even understand basic UK politics.
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  #864  
Old 09-07-2016, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by tuzza_cpfc View Post
Just because the leader of the party usually gets to be PM if their party has the most MPs, does not mean that Tory Party members are electing the PM.

LMAO, muppets on here don't even understand basic UK politics.
And it would seem you don't understand basic logic. But I know you're trolling- poorly - so won't get sucked in.
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  #865  
Old 09-07-2016, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by rhino_mik View Post
Right, so people voted on feelings rather than facts, no surprise there.
Compared to the Leave campaign it seems the Remain campaign were quite negligent by failing to explain their "facts" satisfactorily to the voting public, who were left with little alternative than to vote with their feelings

Why was the Remain campaign so poor? Sheer arrogance? Overconfidence? Inability?
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  #866  
Old 09-07-2016, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by rhino_mik View Post
Ummmm, not sure if you're being dumb or willfully ignorant.
Tuzza thinks I'm a middle aged man pretending to be a girl as some kind of peado thing - a ploy that would be enormously successful on a football message board. Do you need to ask if he is dumb or ignorant
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  #867  
Old 09-07-2016, 09:28 AM
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Compared to the Leave campaign it seems the Remain campaign were quite negligent by failing to explain their "facts" satisfactorily to the voting public, who were left with little alternative than to vote with their feelings

Why was the Remain campaign so poor? Sheer arrogance? Overconfidence? Inability?
Interesting isn't it? I have no doubt that the issues are very complex, as Mik demonstrated on the referendum thread, and one of the problems with that is that they are easily refuted in theory by a simple lie. People like soundbites, not complex arguments.

But it is the job of any good orator to be able to bring to life complicated things in a simple way, and I do think that they failed us exactly as you say.
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  #868  
Old 09-07-2016, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Interesting isn't it? I have no doubt that the issues are very complex, as Mik demonstrated on the referendum thread, and one of the problems with that is that they are easily refuted in theory by a simple lie. People like soundbites, not complex arguments.

But it is the job of any good orator to be able to bring to life complicated things in a simple way, and I do think that they failed us exactly as you say.
Being able to translate a complicated into plain language only works if people want to listen, if the takeaway is something they are interested in. The translation of the complicated remain message was essentially "we'll all be worse off", that had no traction with a lot of people who were already worse off.
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  #869  
Old 09-07-2016, 09:47 AM
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And still no Brexiter has given an example of EU red tape strangling British business.
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  #870  
Old 09-07-2016, 10:00 AM
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And still no Brexiter has given an example of EU red tape strangling British business.
I know of a few examples on a minor scale : a food importer/exporter whose margins are affected by unnecessary red tape. And a manufacturer who can't compete with the Japanese as effectively as he would like because he has to comply with certain EU regs and they, apparently, don't.

In both cases, their frustration is that Brussels is not responsive and their MEPs - both UKIP - are no help whatsoever.

But I am not sure either are typical or significant. The reality is that European harmonisation tends to help, since all parties know what rules need to be followed to access a large market.

Oh, and the other problem with this post is that I am not a Brexiter.
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  #871  
Old 09-07-2016, 10:03 AM
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  #872  
Old 09-07-2016, 10:04 AM
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Food is one area. All foodstuffs must comply with EU regs even if they are produced exclusively for export to countries where the standards are lower.

Though obviously this makes complete sense if anyone thinks about it for more than three seconds, and even when we Brexit I would expect all foodstuffs to have to meet whatever the UK conditions are even if they are produced exclusively for export.
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  #873  
Old 09-07-2016, 10:56 AM
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The Government has responded to the infamous post-referendum petition:

"The European Union Referendum Act received Royal Assent in December 2015, receiving overwhelming support from Parliament. The Act did not set a threshold for the result or for minimum turnout.

The EU Referendum Act received Royal Assent in December 2015. The Act was scrutinised and debated in Parliament during its passage and agreed by both the House of Commons and the House of Lords. The Act set out the terms under which the referendum would take place, including provisions for setting the date, franchise and the question that would appear on the ballot paper. The Act did not set a threshold for the result or for minimum turnout.

As the Prime Minister made clear in his statement to the House of Commons on 27 June, the referendum was one of the biggest democratic exercises in British history with over 33 million people having their say. The Prime Minister and Government have been clear that this was a once in a generation vote and, as the Prime Minister has said, the decision must be respected. We must now prepare for the process to exit the EU and the Government is committed to ensuring the best possible outcome for the British people in the negotiations.

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  #874  
Old 09-07-2016, 11:11 AM
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The so-called "scaremongering" jibe tactic by the leave campaign leaders, was very successful. As you suggest, it was the remain campaign leaders that weren't listening, and instead of doing the right thing, which was to campaign on all the good and positive stuff about the EU, carried on with the negative.

So how does the aftermath of the the remain campaign look today? Well, we have had the first wave of economic shock that was predicted. We have the FTSE 250 down, the pound down significantly. We have investment being pulled and suspended, and consumer confidence down, the latter being the most internally economically damaging short to medium term. We have the TATA sale of our steel industry being pulled as a consequence of Brexit, and further aftershocks are going to hit in the coming weeks and months.

As for the leave campaign, Boris bottled it and has gone. Farage left the sinking ship even before Article 50 has been invoked, and Gove has gone, with no post Brexit plan in place and no leader of their campaign left in place to suggest one, apart from the rookie Loathsome, who incredibly has a chance of being our next and nationally unelected prime minister.

It is easy to argue that the actuality is really worse than was predicted.
Go on then........
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  #875  
Old 09-07-2016, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post

But it is the job of any good orator to be able to bring to life complicated things in a simple way, and I do think that they failed us exactly as you say.

What astounded me about the 'Remain' campaign was the lack of positive attitude towards Europe. That nobody ever seemed to stand up and say that the notion of open EU borders, the ability to move and live where you wanted and the just the sheer audacity of trying to bring together such a diverse continent has a certain 'elan' to it that would always need admiring.

For me personally, the entire debate was never about Europe but rather the actual European Union as a specific entity and that is utter shite. It needs dismantling completely but the actual ideals behind the project, they have some genuine merit.

But we got nothing.

I also think the Remain camp failed to grasp that many people, and usually the ones that many of you soc.libs enjoy slagging off as being thick and stupid, actually grasped the reality of this referendum in terms of their votes actually meaning something. If anything, I suspect the great, uneducated and unwashed white workings class got it more than many of the bright young things on the Remain side.

Also, and I must confess to being more than a little shocked by it, the vitriol and frankly unpleasant response from many on the Remain side has been a real eye opener. Many of you seem not only incapable of accepting that you lost but also hell bent on doing what you can to over-throw what was a clear and very well attended democratic vote in action. In many ways June 23rd was the epitome of the entire democratic philosophy in action and yet it is decried by many people whom I am sure would have proudly labelled themselves all for democracy on June 22nd.

You soc.libs are more dangerous than I have ever given you credit for. The label 'fascist' gets bandied about without much justification but from what I have read from many of you on here in terms of dismay at losing, you are perhaps closer to what Fascism actually stands for than you might be willing to admit.
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  #876  
Old 09-07-2016, 11:29 AM
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The remain campaign will continue in two ways.

Economic threats - there will be a recession if we invoke Article 50.
Emotional blackmail - use the press to drip feed articles on Poles being abused as a result of Brexit. That way those who voted Brexit will be morally bullied into apologising and feeling guilty.

Remember, those who voted Brexit tended to be pensioners and on low income. They will be outgunned in a PR war by big business, trade union barons and the political establishment. I can really see the wishes of the 52% being ignored ultimately and us not leaving. I strongly supported remain but do not want the democratic wishes of the majority to be ignored just because the 48% minority includes the better off and powerful. Come up with some policies that benefit the low paid and then there may be a case for another referendum.
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  #877  
Old 09-07-2016, 11:34 AM
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Come up with some policies that benefit the low paid and then there may be a case for another referendum.

There is no case for another referendum on this issue in anything other than an absolute minimum of 10 years into the future.

We had a vote on June 23rd and that needs to be honoured. End of story.
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  #878  
Old 09-07-2016, 11:35 AM
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T
Emotional blackmail - use the press to drip feed articles on Poles being abused as a result of Brexit. That way those who voted Brexit will be morally bullied into apologising and feeling guilty.
I don't think I have ever criticised a post of yours before, but I rather object to this.

It is a fact that foreigners - many of whom have lived here for decades - have been threatened and abused in a quite disgraceful way. Are you saying these stories are not true? Or are you saying they should not be reported, that they are not 'news'?

Or are you saying that we should feel bad about feeling bad about them ? That all that is happening is unreal and the only reality is that we are being manipulated by the press?

Whatever you are saying, I think it's a pretty sad comment on the times, when there is a significant increase in xenophobic attacks, and we are told "don't worry about it; it's 'moral bullying'".
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  #879  
Old 09-07-2016, 11:36 AM
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We had an advisory vote on June 23rd and that needs to be heard.
EFA
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Old 09-07-2016, 11:42 AM
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EFA
There you go. A perfect example of why the Remain side still fail to grasp the magnitude of what happened on June 23rd. It is like you are small and not particulary bright children who are throwing a tantrum in the Super-Market because mummy took away their bag of sweets.

And like all such children, if you carry on then you run the risk of getting a bloody good wallop and well deserved it will be as well.

You try and campaign for this vote to be ignored and you run the risk of unleashing terrible violence. Utter mayhem on British streets. Because if this vote is ignored, then we might as well give up on democracy all together because it no longer has any validity in terms of how people decide to be governed.

Why should anybody accept the result of any vote anymore if this one is ignored?
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