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  #14721  
Old 16-10-2018, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by TouchyAndalou View Post
AJ isn't in the conversation. He's getting better, but this is somebody who two fights ago couldn't get his right hand off against Parker.
I am not sure I buy the aj hype to an extent but heís taken on better fighters than wilder (or any other heavy active out there) despite being a relative novice. So not even letting him enter the conversation is strange.
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  #14722  
Old 16-10-2018, 10:38 PM
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I am not sure I buy the aj hype to an extent but heís taken on better fighters than wilder (or any other heavy active out there) despite being a relative novice. So not even letting him enter the conversation is strange.
Weird to use the Parker fight as as the benchmark too. It wasnít the greatest fight to watch but AJ did all he had to do and and won with ease. Other than Ortiz, Wilder hasnít fought anyone of Parkerís quality and heís had double the fights that AJ has.
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  #14723  
Old 16-10-2018, 11:38 PM
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I am not sure I buy the aj hype to an extent but heís taken on better fighters than wilder (or any other heavy active out there) despite being a relative novice. So not even letting him enter the conversation is strange.
AJ may (or may not) be the best heavyweight currently, so he's in that conversation. But as far as most skilled boxer in the division, I don't have him being close to Ortiz. Again, that's purely boxing skill, not overall effectiveness. The better boxer isn't necessarily always the better fighter, especially in the heavyweight division.

I agree that Ortiz's resume is light outside of Wilder, mainly due to him being avoided. But when I watch Ortiz I see slickness that is rare for the heavyweight division. And, more so than AJ, I see skills that are transferrable to other weightclasses. AJ has a nice jab, a strong right hand, an improving left hook, but most of his dominance is surely derived from him being much bigger and much stronger than his opponents, similar to how Wladimir dominated the division for a decade. He's not a more skilled fighter than Povetkin or probably even Parker IMO, but he is physically much more gifted.
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  #14724  
Old 17-10-2018, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by TouchyAndalou View Post
AJ may (or may not) be the best heavyweight currently, so he's in that conversation. But as far as most skilled boxer in the division, I don't have him being close to Ortiz. Again, that's purely boxing skill, not overall effectiveness. The better boxer isn't necessarily always the better fighter, especially in the heavyweight division.

I agree that Ortiz's resume is light outside of Wilder, mainly due to him being avoided. But when I watch Ortiz I see slickness that is rare for the heavyweight division. And, more so than AJ, I see skills that are transferrable to other weightclasses. AJ has a nice jab, a strong right hand, an improving left hook, but most of his dominance is surely derived from him being much bigger and much stronger than his opponents, similar to how Wladimir dominated the division for a decade. He's not a more skilled fighter than Povetkin or probably even Parker IMO, but he is physically much more gifted.
So are you trying to tell us that ‘King Kong’ Ortiz is pure skill and he loses out due to his size / physicality?
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Last edited by Palace121; 17-10-2018 at 09:27 AM.
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  #14725  
Old 17-10-2018, 09:41 AM
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Ortiz is decent but not a world beater in my opinion and father time is catching up. I think a fight with Whyte would be a really good match up.

In other news Dave Allen has decided not to fight Lucas Browne in December as he has been given a shot at a belt. Wonder what belt that is? Browne likely to fight Price and then Allen fights the winner.
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  #14726  
Old 17-10-2018, 10:13 AM
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So are you trying to tell us that ‘King Kong’ Ortiz is pure skill and he loses out due to his size / physicality?
He's certainly not a small heavyweight, but he's also not a super heavyweight. Even "King Kong" is at a physical disadvantage against Joshua, Fury and Wilder who are huge for any era. The main question in those fights would be whether his boxing ability is enough to bridge that gap (not exclusively of course, there's also power, resilience, stamina, etc. to consider, but despite his nickname he's somebody who relies on skill as much as anybody in the division) On the evidence of the Wilder fight it wasn't enough, but I will say that the scorecards there were suspect - he was winning that fight. He also badly hurt Wilder with a perfectly timed counter shot, not some lucky punch.

Fury would be a nightmare fight for him, because he's not nimble of foot and not good at chasing opponents down. Against Joshua, like I said, I slightly favour Joshua. Younger, fresher and stronger. It's a good fight that Ortiz is a very live underdog in though.

The fight I really want to see (and judging by Twitter and YouTube comment sections, British boxing fans want to see) is Ortiz vs Whyte. I'd pay money to watch that. Whyte's much-improved and a top 10 heavyweight, but I think he's in a world of trouble in that fight.

The reason that the Whyte vs Chisora fight hasn't been announced is surely that Delboy is playing hardball. And it appears that Chisora has just named Haye as his new manager, who has experience negotiating big fights with Hearn. Chisora may be looking to cash out on this, but I'd like nothing more than for that fight to fall through. There would then be increased pressure for Whyte to fight Ortiz, and if Ortiz wins that fight it removes Whyte as a potential Joshua opponent next year (presumably making the Joshua vs Wilder fight more likely!)

Last edited by TouchyAndalou; 17-10-2018 at 10:17 AM.
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  #14727  
Old 17-10-2018, 10:55 AM
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Wilder is not a huge heavyweight.

Del Boy deserves a decent pay day. Hearn probably offered him something derisory and the flirting with Ortiz is a negotiating tactic.
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  #14728  
Old 17-10-2018, 11:23 AM
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Wilder is not a huge heavyweight.

Del Boy deserves a decent pay day. Hearn probably offered him something derisory and the flirting with Ortiz is a negotiating tactic.
True, with Wilder it's more a combination of his physical attributes - height, reach, quickness and of course power. He's still an imposing physical presence in the ring.

I like Del and the first fight was close, but I don't care about seeing that fight again. It's a backwards step for Whyte.
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  #14729  
Old 17-10-2018, 07:18 PM
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Why on earth would anyone bother fighting Ortiz if he’s as dangerous as you reckon? There simply wouldn’t be the money in it. Surely if you are Whyte now you fight the likes of chisora knowing you will win and sit tight for a fight against one of the big three. Which would eventually come based purely on the depth within the division.
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  #14730  
Old 19-10-2018, 06:30 PM
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GGG has KO'd just about everybody he's faced apart from Canelo. I mean, he has the highest KO percentage in middleweight championship history (or had - not sure after the Canelo fights) He broke Macklin's ribs, busted Brook's eye socket. He's universally recognised as pound for pound one of the 3 or so hardest punchers in the sport currently. He has many early KOs as well, where Groves doesn't. And most of Groves KOs come against significantly weaker competition.

True enough Golovkin has done that at 160 compared to 168 for Groves, but I'd be shocked if Golovkin's power didn't carry up and he wasn't a bigger puncher at 168 than both Groves and Smith.
Whilst I donít disagree that GGG carries serious power for his weight, it would take a lot to take down Smith, who is huge for the weight. Groves is repeatedly mentioned as a viscous puncher by everyone heís faced and he didnít trouble Smith. GGG didnít trouble Canelo either. Still we can agree to disagree and itís a fight Iíd like to see (rather than his current scheduled opponent).

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Have never liked or rated degale. Will go for eubank to spring an upset in that one.
Iíd have said Eubank is the favourite for that one. Can see him walking Degale down, out working him and beating him at close range.
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  #14731  
Old 19-10-2018, 08:34 PM
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Why on earth would anyone bother fighting Ortiz if heís as dangerous as you reckon? There simply wouldnít be the money in it. Surely if you are Whyte now you fight the likes of chisora knowing you will win and sit tight for a fight against one of the big three. Which would eventually come based purely on the depth within the division.
I actually had Del boy winning against Whyte on my card.
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  #14732  
Old 19-10-2018, 08:40 PM
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I actually had Del boy winning against Whyte on my card.
Agreed
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  #14733  
Old 19-10-2018, 08:41 PM
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Id love to see that again, it was some fight.
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  #14734  
Old 19-10-2018, 10:04 PM
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Going to the Frank Warren card tomorrow. Some decent fights, really like Anthony Yarde and Nathan Gorman.
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  #14735  
Old Yesterday, 07:25 AM
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Callum Smith vs GGG at Anfield next summer does appeal
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Old Yesterday, 07:30 AM
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This weekend WBSS

Dorticos
Manny Rodriguez

Conlan is fighting too on Bryant vs Murata undercard

Yarde scrapping over here

Decent Hearn card

Boo Boo Andrade

Katie Taylor

Tennyson vs Farmer

Coyle

Quigg
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Old Yesterday, 08:26 PM
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