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  #81  
Old 27-12-2009, 11:33 PM
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It is my opinion that there are a number of young footballers in England who possess that natural combination of technical, athletic and thinking talent, which is close to uncoachable and which is such a nightmare for defenders - who, with a very good second half of the season in the Premiership, could go to the World Cup. Largely due to our lack of such players. Wilshere and Welbeck are two; I think Sturridge could possibly be another but believe he's not ready. And I also think Moses is in that category; it's a long shot, but none of us know how he's going to adapt to Premiership football, and he does have that mix.

Anyone who doesn't recognise that talent there is in serious denial. I'm not going to say he's the end product yet, far from it, but the talent there is staggering. He's not the best player to play for Palace but I think he is the most talented since Byrne, going by reputation (with the possible exception of Lombardo).

No, I wouldn't compare him to Rooney, but there are incredibly few players in world football I would compare with Rooney in terms of the speed of development. Recently I think that list reads Leo Messi and thats it. I do very much think he can be as good as Rooney though.

There's been some hysteria and over-optimism about him. But there's also a whole of a lot of pessimism and excessive naysaying and I'd far rather be excited and hopeful for a player like Moses than not.
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  #82  
Old 27-12-2009, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Fever Pitch
3/4 good games for us and he's suddenly worth £5m+, have a day off.

Don't get me wrong, when he can be arsed he's the best player in the squad by a country mile but lets be honest, £1m upfront from Arsenal plus add on's and i'd walk him to North London myself.
Was this a joke?? How can you expect the club to go anywhere by selling our best player for a completely ridiculous amount. Yes, we are on the verge of administration, but i would rather hold onto Moses (unless we get a good amount of money) and aim for the premiership. If we start selling our best players the club will collapse. Moses can change the game... who else do we have that has the ability to do that? I'm sure Jordan has something up his sleeve, and also Moses is a valuable asset, he makes the club look better to whoever wants to buy. Walcott went to Arsenal for something like 10 million. I dont expect to get this, but nobody can say that Walcott is 10 times better than Moses.
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  #83  
Old 28-12-2009, 02:09 AM
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Moses is a fantastic talent but people on here are clearly forgetting that he hasn't started every game this season, so obviously our manager doesn't think he should be one of the first names on the team sheet. It doesn't look good to TOP managers when they see a supposed superstar like Moses on the bench against some Championship team does it.

Also, I think some of this talk is way OTT. I would consider the likes of Matt Jansen and John Salako to be far superior talents than Moses. I'm not playing down how good he is because I think he is fantastic but to suggest Victor is as good as the likes of Walcott, Rooney is delusional. Players of that quality DO NOT stay at Championship clubs for as long as Moses has.
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  #84  
Old 28-12-2009, 03:06 AM
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the likes of Matt Jansen
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  #85  
Old 28-12-2009, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Moses is a fantastic talent but people on here are clearly forgetting that he hasn't started every game this season, so obviously our manager doesn't think he should be one of the first names on the team sheet. It doesn't look good to TOP managers when they see a supposed superstar like Moses on the bench against some Championship team does it.

Also, I think some of this talk is way OTT. I would consider the likes of Matt Jansen and John Salako to be far superior talents than Moses. I'm not playing down how good he is because I think he is fantastic but to suggest Victor is as good as the likes of Walcott, Rooney is delusional. Players of that quality DO NOT stay at Championship clubs for as long as Moses has.
I both agree and disagree with parts of this

Agree that the hero worship and greatest player we've ever produced/people have ever seen is way over the top (anbd not even close to the truth IMO)

I agree Matt Jansen was a bigger talent, but so IMO were anumber oif players to wear the shirt, not all home grown though

I disagree about players staying as long as Moses has at a Chmpionshipo club though.

He has been here a while but only in the first team squad for a season and ahalf to two seasons , in reality he has never nailed down a starting place. So if he cant guarantee himself a start at Palace he doesnt have a hope of doing so at an established Premiership side. See Routledge, Watson and Soares, all 1st choice at Palce but none ever got close to a regular start in the Premiership after leaving here (and Soares and Watson were/are at bottom end Premiership sides)
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  #86  
Old 28-12-2009, 02:04 PM
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Moses certainly seems to polarise the opinions of the majority of Palace fans. For me it's somewhere in the middle. He is one the most talented players we've had at the club for a long time but it is still raw talent and there is no saying how much better, if any, he is going to get.

To a certain extent that depends on where he moves to. A move to a lesser premier league club could well see him stagnate in much the same way that Routledge, Watson, Soares and the rest have. A move to one of the top clubs would be better for him as, whilst he wouldn't be an instant starter, he would be given time to develop in the way that many Palace fans think he will.

Some on this thread have mentioned Aaron Ramsey and I think he is the closest example to Moses. When he moved to Arsenal he wasn't even considered for the first team unless it was a league cup game and even now he's by no means a regular. That is exactly what Moses needs, slow nurturing in an environment where he is surrounded by better players that can only help him improve his game. If this happens then he could well have a very good future in the game.
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  #87  
Old 28-12-2009, 09:46 PM
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  #88  
Old 28-12-2009, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pardew's shorts
Some of the comments on here are ridiculous.

Victor has only just turned 19, and has only just started getting regular starts. 99% of young players are, by their very nature, inconsistent. Our academy is wonderful, but if our players don't develop at the speed of a Rooney or a Fabregas, they're written off.

Of course the future for a player is part guesswork, but I think Victor will go to the very, very top. I certainly think he'll be much, much better than Salad and Jansen. He's made for the Premier League (or an equivalent top division), where he'll be afforded more space and he won't be expected to do too much defending. He also won't have 2/3 defenders on him at all times.

I think comparisons to Walcott are more than justified. Victor could go to Arsenal and play in the Premier League straight away.

Victor is, still (unbelievably), vilified by a fair number in the stands. We don't treat our young, creative players well in this country. If he tries a trick and it doesn't come off, he's a fancy dan; if he doesn't chase every pass back to the keeper, he's lazy; if he has an off day, he doesn't fancy it. Too many fans seem to prefer the likes of Hill, simply because they "get stuck in".

Victor is special. We'll miss him. Hugely.
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  #89  
Old 28-12-2009, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pardew's shorts

Of course the future for a player is part guesswork, but I think Victor will go to the very, very top. I certainly think he'll be much, much better than Salad and Jansen. .
You've really seen something THAT special in Moses that you think he could be as good as Salako and Jansen? Remember we saw Salako and Jansen play very, very well against Premier League opposition.

The Championship and Premier League are worlds apart. Moses can easily cause Barnsley's defence problems but can he do what Salako and Matt Jansen did on a regular basis. Both from a young age were causing major problems for top class full backs and defenders.

I'm really not knocking Moses because I think he is great but some of the stuff written on here is laughable. For example, do you think Moses is good enough to displace Craig Bellamy from Manchester City, Ashley Young from Aston Villa, Yossi Benayoun from Liverpool, Aaron Lennon from Tottenham, Andrey Arshavin from Arsenal, Zoltan Gera from Fulham? Moses has a long way to go before he is talked about in the same brackets as these players.

I wish Moses all the best and hope he can fulfill his potential but let's keep some realism about all this. I suspect every club in the country has a 'Victor Moses' who they feel are destined for greatness.
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  #90  
Old 29-12-2009, 12:07 AM
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Salako was good granted, but he didnt have even half the natural talent that Moses is blessed with.

Salad's success was done to hard work and sheer determination to make the most of the somewhat modest skills that he posssed IMO.
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Old 29-12-2009, 12:42 AM
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Victor Moses has an unteachable raw natural talent that is only seen once every decade or so, if he has Frank Lampard's desire and confidence then he will make it big time, if he has David Whyte's then he will disappear!
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Old 29-12-2009, 12:57 AM
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Old 29-12-2009, 01:08 AM
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Salako was good granted, but he didnt have even half the natural talent that Moses is blessed with.

Salad's success was done to hard work and sheer determination to make the most of the somewhat modest skills that he posssed IMO.

i think the salad man was underated , he was excellent on either foot , more two footed than Victor and quicker, a far better crosser and finisher
if he hadn't been injured he would have had a long England career and would probably ended up at one of the big clubs

i think Victor has that extra bit of skill and i hope that one day he becomes a better player than the wonderful salad man !

Victor is a joy to watch at the moment and i'm glad Warnock has finally realised he is not a winger !
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  #94  
Old 29-12-2009, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David
You've really seen something THAT special in Moses that you think he could be as good as Salako and Jansen? Remember we saw Salako and Jansen play very, very well against Premier League opposition.

The Championship and Premier League are worlds apart. Moses can easily cause Barnsley's defence problems but can he do what Salako and Matt Jansen did on a regular basis. Both from a young age were causing major problems for top class full backs and defenders.

I'm really not knocking Moses because I think he is great but some of the stuff written on here is laughable. For example, do you think Moses is good enough to displace Craig Bellamy from Manchester City, Ashley Young from Aston Villa, Yossi Benayoun from Liverpool, Aaron Lennon from Tottenham, Andrey Arshavin from Arsenal, Zoltan Gera from Fulham? Moses has a long way to go before he is talked about in the same brackets as these players.

I wish Moses all the best and hope he can fulfill his potential but let's keep some realism about all this. I suspect every club in the country has a 'Victor Moses' who they feel are destined for greatness.
Maybe people are going slightly ott because they feel good about a player who potentially could go all the way ! AND that he started at the palace . Its good to have positive threads rather than gloomy ones isnt it ?
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Old 29-12-2009, 08:13 PM
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Think Moses will end up somewhere like Villa or Everton.
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Old 29-12-2009, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David
Also, I think some of this talk is way OTT. I would consider the likes of Matt Jansen and John Salako to be far superior talents than Moses. I'm not playing down how good he is because I think he is fantastic but to suggest Victor is as good as the likes of Walcott, Rooney is delusional. Players of that quality DO NOT stay at Championship clubs for as long as Moses has.
AGAIN, a complete failure to understand one of the most basic aspects of player development in ANY sport:

Everyone is DIFFERENT. There is absolutely no exact science to player development. None. Players respond to different processes in different ways. Rooney is a GENERATIONAL talent. Not just in terms of skillset, but in sheer footballing and physical maturity - the guy was a beast at 17, and he really got it, like no other kid I have seen in recent times, and we are unlikely to see that too soon again either.

Walcott seems to have been overhyped also. The guy got a move on the back of a couple of excellent performances for Southampton, but the only aspect of his game that is better than Victor's in terms of raw talent is speed. Moses' natural technical ability is greater than Walcott.

The thing is, Moses' has only just started putting it together. That he was ineffective and inconsistent at times before that would only come as a surprise to people who have been dragged along in the inpatience of modern times and forgotten that guys who develop as fast as Rooney are the exception, not the norm.

People are right to be excited about Vic, and to praise him, because on a basic level, his talent is exceptional.

Whether he goes on to be a great player still remains to be seen. It will take a huge work ethic (which hasn't always been there with this kid), the right moves, coaching and advice, and most of all, luck. But the kid has the potential to be an ELITE player.
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Old 30-12-2009, 11:29 AM
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Given the sensational month Victor has had, perhaps we should get him a parting award on the PFA Fans Awards. I've voted already.

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Old 30-12-2009, 12:02 PM
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bump. lets stick a few more £ on his pricetag whilst showing gratitude for some incredible performances
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Old 30-12-2009, 12:08 PM
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lets get behind him!

gonna be missed, and puts an end to our season when he has gone!
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Old 30-12-2009, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Flange
Salako was good granted, but he didnt have even half the natural talent that Moses is blessed with.

Salad's success was done to hard work and sheer determination to make the most of the somewhat modest skills that he posssed IMO.
Salako had a lot more composure. It was a long time ago now but i cannot remember seeing a winger beat the full back and cross the ball as often as he did. The cross was usually pretty dangerous too.

Difficult to compare I guess. Someone with the ball skills of moses will always create a stir amongst the fans. He has to add to it though as he matures. So many skillful players don't.

I think Lennon is an example of how it could go well for moses. I still think he lacks the composure to make him a great player but he is an example of a player similar to moses that with the right breaks could move up to another level and be given the chance to improve.

Lennon only moved to spurs for £1million from a cash strapped club desperate for money!! worrying example.
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