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General Palace Discussion General Palace talk - please keep transfer talk in the transfer forum.

View Poll Results: What should SP do after 13 games if next 4 league games are losses?
Back! 625 60.74%
Sack! 196 19.05%
Back until January! 178 17.30%
Moo/other?! 30 2.92%
Voters: 1029. You may not vote on this poll

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  #81  
Old 23-10-2018, 02:20 PM
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Roy has done it time and time again in plenty of leagues across the continent.
To want him sacked is sheer lunacy and feels like when WBA sacked Pulis. We would regret it.
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  #82  
Old 23-10-2018, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Finch View Post
Roy has done it time and time again in plenty of leagues across the continent.
To want him sacked is sheer lunacy and feels like when WBA sacked Pulis. We would regret it.
It's easy to cite that as an example because it worked out so spectacularly badly for WBA. In 4 games time we could easily be in the bottom 3 and then you could just as well compare it to sacking Holloway to bring in Pulis, sacking Pardew to bring in Allardyce etc. As per my previous post I think Roy will see us over the line but I think we're still at the stage where we could hope to achieve more than that from this season.
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  #83  
Old 23-10-2018, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Oli28 View Post
It's easy to cite that as an example because it worked out so spectacularly badly for WBA. In 4 games time we could easily be in the bottom 3 and then you could just as well compare it to sacking Holloway to bring in Pulis, sacking Pardew to bring in Allardyce etc. As per my previous post I think Roy will see us over the line but I think we're still at the stage where we could hope to achieve more than that from this season.
Iain Holloway,wasn't Sacked,& Recommended Tony Pulis.
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  #84  
Old 23-10-2018, 02:48 PM
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Iain Holloway,wasn't Sacked,& Recommended Tony Pulis.
Fair enough. If we're being technical, his name was 'Iain' either.
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  #85  
Old 23-10-2018, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Pub Idol View Post
He may be sacked in the future for results in the past- The Soton, Newcastle, Bournemouth, Wolves & Everton games were shockingly managed IMO. 1 point from those is staggering actually.

He picks the wrong team and makes the wrong substitutes. Very frustrating.

That said - Its not his fault that we signed nobody in the summer - Or at least nobody that has made an impact. Its classic Palace to not kick on from a place of strength.

He has one last throw IMO - He needs a victory against one of the big boys. Big ask that.
Bournemouth, Watford, Everton and Wolves are 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th ...in all those games we have been well in them, but lost points due to a late penalty conceded, a sitter missed (and a freak goal), a penalty missed, and one chance well taken ( when we had the greater possession and number of chances).

Newcastle who went 2-0 up against Man U came to Selhurst with a massed defence, but we could have won that if Sakho had buried his chance (we had 62% of the possession in that game and a shot ratio of 16-6) and we hit the post. Wolves at home we had 67% possession twice as many shots.

Even the Southampton game which I consider our worst partly due to a deflated atmosphere with Zaha out, it was an equal game with McCarthy their goalie being applauded for a good game, and we hit the bar again.

In essence I don't think there is much wrong that a couple of goals or a striker with confidence can't solve. I don't see the wrong pics for the team unless it an argument over Schlupp v Meyer...but I think Meyer is being eased into it, and playing Schlupp (who had a good game against Everton) allows Zaha to come inside and also do less defending.

As far as Subs are concerned that is probably Roy's weak spot, although he probably looks at his bench and has maybe two players he is happy to put on who might make a difference....that said I don't think Sorloth has been given a fair crack chance....if you don't play games in the Premiership, your not going to develop as a Premiership player.

And yes I think we will pick up points from the big boys especially if Wickham gets good game time and plays well
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  #86  
Old 23-10-2018, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18mcpalace View Post
BACK

In the same way that it was totally inexplicable that West Brom sacked Tony Pulis last season, I would draw the same comparison for us this season.

Yes, things are disappointing but Roy is exactly the kind of manager we would want in a relegation fight - so why on earth sack him during the season?
(I have no issue with him being sacked at the end of the season assuming an alternative is lined up).

The second reason is who would be a credible replacement? I've tried to draw up a longlist, and there really aren't any obvious candidates available.

Sam Allardyce - Not sure he'd come back, or the Board (or fans) would have him. But if he would come back, he's the only short term option I would support.
David Moyes - he's a bigger risk than Roy
Paul Lambert - see David Moyes
Steve Bruce - plenty of water under the bridge since 2001, but his record of keeping teams up is mixed. Again hardly an upgrade on Roy.
Chris Coleman - did well with Wales. But club record is v mixed. Also tactically not sure he's great.
Roberto Di Matteo - a terrible record (albeit just 12 games at Villa) out of work since 2016
Claudio Ranieri - out of work since being sacked by Nantes. But at 67, feels like a Hodgson type appointment without the defensive organisation.
Mick McCarthy - excellent Championship manager, but not up to it in the top flight
Glenn Hoddle or Alan Curbishley - both excellent managers in my view. But haven't been in work since 2006 and 2008 respectively. They would have to be regarded as major risks having been out of management for 10+ years.

The only other out of work manager I'd be tempted by is Quique Sanchez Flores his record across 15 years in management is excellent. Getafe 13th; Valencia 4th; Benfica 3rd & won Cup; Athletico 9th, 7th, Europa League & Spanish Cup; Watford 13th in the first PL back; Espanyol 8th & 11th.

In work managers:

Chris Wilder has clearly done an excellent job at Oxford, Northampton and now Sheffield United. But would be a huge risk to appoint someone without any top flight experience. He might want to see through the season to see if he can take United up this season anyway.

Rafa Benitez, Sean Dyche and Eddie Howe all terrific managers. And whilst I can imagine circumstances in which all 3 would be tempted to leave their current clubs, I can't envisage any circumstance where they would choose us as a destination. The fact they know they are in demand, means they can be incredibly selective about their next club.
Good summery. Sam is the only decent option I’d be confident about. Wilder would be interesting but a gamble. Much rather Roy over the rest
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  #87  
Old 23-10-2018, 04:35 PM
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Roy has to go for me. Despite doing an adequate job at the club last season in keeping the team up, he had 34 games to save our season, you'd expect most managers to do the same with our squad and quality backing. 9 games into the season now and Roy is yet to pick up on fundamental problems in key areas. The spine of our team is weak and the balace is all wrong. Although Cabaye arguably didn't have his best season in a Palace shirt last year, his ability to drop deep and pick up the ball in all kinds of area allowed Luka to play his game as the general. This season with Kouyate in the side, neither are quite sure what their role is. Kouyate is a shield not a box to box midfielder or a playmaker. Our best performance came away at the Hawthorns where Puncheon and Meyer had outstanding games, the midfield is calling out for a bit of quality which Meyer in particular if given the chances oozes. Why is Roy so reluctant to play these two. Another criticism is his inability to process the game in front of him, time after time Roy appears content and seems incapable or perhaps fearful of mixing it up and making a change. More than anything this gives the crowd a boost and just changes the dynamics, giving the opponents time to think. Where is a plan B? Does he have one? There is no coincidence that the late goals we are shipping are due to the lack of substitutes made by Roy. Although we appear to lack quality and depth, Roy has abundance of experience and there are options in the squad he can experiment with. Time to go I think
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  #88  
Old 23-10-2018, 04:43 PM
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How do you know he wants players we havent bought?
He doesn't seem to want the ones we did, does he.
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  #89  
Old 23-10-2018, 04:44 PM
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If its not going to turn around before January then its unlikely to sufficiently improve for the next part of the season
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  #90  
Old 23-10-2018, 04:49 PM
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poor team selection? who is on the bench that should be playing? I can only think of meyer , who has fitness problems

you can't make three dynamic subs when the bench is championship standard.
It is NOT Roy's fault
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  #91  
Old 23-10-2018, 04:51 PM
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Needs to be at least two offensive impact players on the bench imho
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  #92  
Old 23-10-2018, 04:57 PM
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Just can’t see him pulling us out this slump tbh
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  #93  
Old 23-10-2018, 04:59 PM
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Lets hope he does and I'm fully behind him till Jan and especially v The Arsenal . Not that that counts for much, I appreciate that . But it is 6 losses out of last 8 league games I think and 3 goals scored in that period ? That is cause for alarm now
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  #94  
Old 23-10-2018, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Bin View Post
Bournemouth, Watford, Everton and Wolves are 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th ...in all those games we have been well in them, but lost points due to a late penalty conceded, a sitter missed (and a freak goal), a penalty missed, and one chance well taken ( when we had the greater possession and number of chances).

Newcastle who went 2-0 up against Man U came to Selhurst with a massed defence, but we could have won that if Sakho had buried his chance (we had 62% of the possession in that game and a shot ratio of 16-6) and we hit the post. Wolves at home we had 67% possession twice as many shots.

Even the Southampton game which I consider our worst partly due to a deflated atmosphere with Zaha out, it was an equal game with McCarthy their goalie being applauded for a good game, and we hit the bar again.

In essence I don't think there is much wrong that a couple of goals or a striker with confidence can't solve. I don't see the wrong pics for the team unless it an argument over Schlupp v Meyer...but I think Meyer is being eased into it, and playing Schlupp (who had a good game against Everton) allows Zaha to come inside and also do less defending.

As far as Subs are concerned that is probably Roy's weak spot, although he probably looks at his bench and has maybe two players he is happy to put on who might make a difference....that said I don't think Sorloth has been given a fair crack chance....if you don't play games in the Premiership, your not going to develop as a Premiership player.

And yes I think we will pick up points from the big boys especially if Wickham gets good game time and plays well
Exactly right. How you lose is important. If we were being comprehensively outplayed every week then a major change might be required but the fact is an extra win or two would hardly flatter us.

Yes, we need a striker. Yes, we need more midfield creativity. ( nothing new there ) But this isn't directly Roy's fault. He / the club gambled that either Benteke or Wickham would return to fitness / form and spent the little money we had on midfield trying to replace the losses of Cabaye and RLC. The gamble on Benetke and Wickham wasn't a daft one. Sorloth could have emeged by now. Ayew could have bedded in. I think the club did all it could considering the money we had to spend. The major problem we have had is converting chances and some of that is down to Benteke but let's not forget Roy had no hand in bringing him here.

What Roy will do is drill us well. We're not leaking goals. We just need to take our chances better. A new manager won't help that. That's down to the players performing at a level we know they can reach and amending the striker issue hopefully in January. The main point is the team doesn't look clueless like under Holloway or Pardew.
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Old 23-10-2018, 05:43 PM
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You wait till we have beaten Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs and Man U in the next four games. He’ll be a genius again!
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  #96  
Old 23-10-2018, 07:11 PM
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You wait till we have beaten Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs and Man U in the next four games. He’ll be a genius again!
That's a 2,340/1 gamble..
If you put a pound on that....you'll lose a pound
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Old 23-10-2018, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18mcpalace View Post
BACK

In the same way that it was totally inexplicable that West Brom sacked Tony Pulis last season, I would draw the same comparison for us this season.

Yes, things are disappointing but Roy is exactly the kind of manager we would want in a relegation fight - so why on earth sack him during the season?
(I have no issue with him being sacked at the end of the season assuming an alternative is lined up).

The second reason is who would be a credible replacement? I've tried to draw up a longlist, and there really aren't any obvious candidates available.

Sam Allardyce - Not sure he'd come back, or the Board (or fans) would have him. But if he would come back, he's the only short term option I would support.
David Moyes - he's a bigger risk than Roy
Paul Lambert - see David Moyes
Steve Bruce - plenty of water under the bridge since 2001, but his record of keeping teams up is mixed. Again hardly an upgrade on Roy.
Chris Coleman - did well with Wales. But club record is v mixed. Also tactically not sure he's great.
Roberto Di Matteo - a terrible record (albeit just 12 games at Villa) out of work since 2016
Claudio Ranieri - out of work since being sacked by Nantes. But at 67, feels like a Hodgson type appointment without the defensive organisation.
Mick McCarthy - excellent Championship manager, but not up to it in the top flight
Glenn Hoddle or Alan Curbishley - both excellent managers in my view. But haven't been in work since 2006 and 2008 respectively. They would have to be regarded as major risks having been out of management for 10+ years.

The only other out of work manager I'd be tempted by is Quique Sanchez Flores his record across 15 years in management is excellent. Getafe 13th; Valencia 4th; Benfica 3rd & won Cup; Athletico 9th, 7th, Europa League & Spanish Cup; Watford 13th in the first PL back; Espanyol 8th & 11th.

In work managers:

Chris Wilder has clearly done an excellent job at Oxford, Northampton and now Sheffield United. But would be a huge risk to appoint someone without any top flight experience. He might want to see through the season to see if he can take United up this season anyway.

Rafa Benitez, Sean Dyche and Eddie Howe all terrific managers. And whilst I can imagine circumstances in which all 3 would be tempted to leave their current clubs, I can't envisage any circumstance where they would choose us as a destination. The fact they know they are in demand, means they can be incredibly selective about their next club.
Spot on with your reasoning and assessment, and as you rightly say it would be so pointless to consider moving RH on at this time if at all, firstly he needs long overdue backing in the January window and then can be judged.
However if Steve Parish in his wisdom was to fire Roy before, then the most likely date should be after the West Ham game as we would by then have a clearer picture as to where we stand. So for me the most suitable person on that list to replace RH would be Quique Sanchez Flores without question, he has had premiership experience also his teams are well organized and play attractive football, and importantly is available without having to pay any compensation.
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  #98  
Old 23-10-2018, 07:51 PM
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Probably won't last until the January window by which time who knows how many points we won't have but i voted back as fundamentally it's most of the players who aren't performing to their best ability not the manager .
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Old 23-10-2018, 07:53 PM
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It's so bloody depressing. Groundhog day every season.
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Old 23-10-2018, 08:01 PM
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Roy needs a bright dynamic coach alongside him , one who can challenge him and one he can mentor . Part of a succession plan , along with about 40 million investment in January ( some players will need to go)
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