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  #1  
Old 08-12-2018, 08:36 AM
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The 7 year itch

For a club of our size, does staying in the Premier League become more difficult with each passing year? Common sense would dictate that it's a no. Year after year without relegation, the amount of money coming into the bank is obscenely high and so it helps you maintain your status. So why do I question this logic?

For a start, clubs of a similarish size to us that hang around in this league for longer than a season or two often never really become established. Bolton, Stoke, Swansea, Wigan, all had fairly lengthy recent spells in top flight but they also never really established themselves.

I think the biggest issue actually comes from the increase in money and the difficulty of managing it. Agents exploit this and clubs end up overpaying for bang average players. But the real key here is that the longer you stay up, the worse it can become.

After first getting promoted, a club might end up with a couple of good signings, and one or two wasters that are simply there for the cash and nothing else. As time goes on without relegation, you end up buying more of these. Then after a couple of seasons your half decent but not amazing right back that was part of your promotion team understandably asks for a wage increase, in-line with what his new non-amazing colleagues are getting. The club know that he's probably not really worth the wage he's asked for, but equally, finding a replacement for him that will require a transfer fee and will have an ageny demanding similar wages anyway, means that the club end up paying Mr Average way over the odds.

And this keeps continuing until a club of our size, despite the Premier League millions, just stretches itself until it falls apart.

Of course, a decent scouting system with a good recruitment policy, a proper youth academy, and careful management of finances helps massively in keeping clubs afloat. But in general, does it jusg become more difficult as time goes on, or am I chatting bollocks?
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Old 08-12-2018, 08:39 AM
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More than anything, if we go down without a trophy or European run, I will be very upset. All 4 of the clubs I mentioned got into Europe at some stage, and both Swansea and Wigan won a trophy.

Wigan have triangle corner flags ffs
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Old 08-12-2018, 09:05 AM
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More than anything, if we go down without a trophy or European run, I will be very upset. All 4 of the clubs I mentioned got into Europe at some stage, and both Swansea and Wigan won a trophy.

Wigan have triangle corner flags ffs
European football would send us down.
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Old 08-12-2018, 09:23 AM
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European football would send us down.
We seem to have a good go without it every year

We've made too many mistakes in the transfer market and manager wise. Catches up with you eventually.
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Old 08-12-2018, 09:25 AM
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European football. We can barely get a team together for a match on Saturday.

There are chairman who understand football who keep clubs up and then there are those that don't who are more interested in self publicity.
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Old 08-12-2018, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by cpfc4evandeva View Post
For a club of our size, does staying in the Premier League become more difficult with each passing year? Common sense would dictate that it's a no. Year after year without relegation, the amount of money coming into the bank is obscenely high and so it helps you maintain your status. So why do I question this logic?

For a start, clubs of a similarish size to us that hang around in this league for longer than a season or two often never really become established. Bolton, Stoke, Swansea, Wigan, all had fairly lengthy recent spells in top flight but they also never really established themselves.

I think the biggest issue actually comes from the increase in money and the difficulty of managing it. Agents exploit this and clubs end up overpaying for bang average players. But the real key here is that the longer you stay up, the worse it can become.

After first getting promoted, a club might end up with a couple of good signings, and one or two wasters that are simply there for the cash and nothing else. As time goes on without relegation, you end up buying more of these. Then after a couple of seasons your half decent but not amazing right back that was part of your promotion team understandably asks for a wage increase, in-line with what his new non-amazing colleagues are getting. The club know that he's probably not really worth the wage he's asked for, but equally, finding a replacement for him that will require a transfer fee and will have an ageny demanding similar wages anyway, means that the club end up paying Mr Average way over the odds.

And this keeps continuing until a club of our size, despite the Premier League millions, just stretches itself until it falls apart.

Of course, a decent scouting system with a good recruitment policy, a proper youth academy, and careful management of finances helps massively in keeping clubs afloat. But in general, does it jusg become more difficult as time goes on, or am I chatting bollocks?
I don’t think you’re talking bollocks, there are certain factors that make it difficult.

It’s easy to get sucked in to the ‘must stay up at all costs’ attitude rather than have a clear plan and sticking to it. If you struggle, then you make a number of ‘fire-fighting’ managerial changes, which may work, but leave you with a disjointed squad of players who have been selected by different managers and as a result may not all suit the current manager’s vision.

Then you get the gradual creep of expectations. The longer you stay up, the better some people think you should be doing. For a club our size a successful fight against relegation, ultimately finishing 14th-17th, is a success, but it’s sometimes a bit turgid year after year, and people convince themselves the club has the right to expect to be doing better (not helped when the chairman also says this).

And then as you say, the money, or more pertinently the amount of it you commit to sending out of the club, just rolls up and can spiral out of control.
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Old 08-12-2018, 09:38 AM
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We need a relegation to hit the reset button!
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Old 08-12-2018, 09:40 AM
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The 7 year itch

Could be wrong but I expect Brighton will be in the Premier Leaue for many years. Excellent stadium, fantastic training ground and a great recruitment system that in a year has given them as good a team as ours for a lot less money and wages. People talk about ‘models’ and it’s yet to stand the test of time, but I think they’re doing it in a much more structured way and side by side they look a much healthier club than us now.

When you look at our ragtag facilities, huge wage bill, huge fees spent on questionnable big name players, appointing people to posts because they’re the chairman’s mate, poor scouting and money management it’s absolutely no surprise that we struggle every year. We will continue to struggle until we run out of luck because we’re not run very well by the heads of the club IMO.
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Old 08-12-2018, 09:43 AM
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Could be wrong but I expect Brighton will be in the Premier Leaue for many years. Excellent stadium, fantastic training ground and a great recruitment system that in a year has given them as good a team as ours for a lot less money and wages. People talk about ‘models’ and it’s yet to stand the test of time, but I think they’re doing it in a much more structured way and side by side they look a much healthier club than us now.

When you look at our ragtag facilities, huge wage bill, huge fees spent on questionnable big name players, appointing people to posts because they’re the chairman’s mate, poor scouting and money management it’s absolutely no surprise that we struggle every year. We will continue to struggle until we run out of luck because we’re not run very well by the heads of the club IMO.
Was first the Swansea model we were meant to follow, then the Southampton one.

Like the two clubs mentioned above, Brighton will eventually be found out.
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Old 08-12-2018, 09:48 AM
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Look at them taking Dan Ashworth from the FA as an example though, he is widely credited with playing a major role in the rebuild of the England youth and senior teams. Brighton go out and appoint him as their technical director. We appoint Dougie Freedman. The mindset seems different to me.
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Old 08-12-2018, 09:53 AM
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Look at them taking Dan Ashworth from the FA as an example though, he is widely credited with playing a major role in the rebuild of the England youth and senior teams. Brighton go out and appoint him as their technical director. We appoint Dougie Freedman. The mindset seems different to me.
Wanting to be like bright*n is a new low.
They are a club that have people with no affiliation, whether it's their fans or staff. Much rather have palace people at our club.
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Old 08-12-2018, 10:02 AM
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Seen it all before.

I just want a Cup.
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Old 08-12-2018, 10:08 AM
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Wanting to be like bright*n is a new low.
They are a club that have people with no affiliation, whether it's their fans or staff. Much rather have palace people at our club.
I'd much rather just have competent people who will progress the club personally.
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Old 08-12-2018, 10:28 AM
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The 7 year itch

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I'd much rather just have competent people who will progress the club personally.

Me too, it’s a business. There is a place for ex-Players for sure, but it should be in ambassadorial and media roles, not important roles in the structure of the club.

Being run well and having great fans and Palace people around are not mutually exclusive.

Last edited by BringbackShipps; 08-12-2018 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 08-12-2018, 10:37 AM
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Lots of good posts on this thread. I have always been a fan of Steve Parish but it is incredibly disappointing that if we do go down we really will have very little to show for our time in the PL in terms of infrastructure, facilities and youth set up.
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Old 08-12-2018, 10:56 AM
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This 5-7 year period we are in is quite a dangerous position to be in, a lot of clubs that have really struggled financially have been here, Bolton, Charlton, Sunderland, Blackburn etc.

The signings of first Cabaye on £80k/week then Benteke on £120k/week set the alarm bells ringing for me, as it was a move away from any type of sensible wage structure for a club of our size and further compounded by the signing of Sakho. This then sets the precedent when agents start discussions about their players wages, Wilf being the prime example on £130k/week.

This sucks money away from other parts of the club that need it, hence our squad is small and our recruitment policy questionable to put it mildly.
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Old 08-12-2018, 10:56 AM
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We need a relegation to hit the reset button!
It's not as easy as that though. In the first year or two, if you go down there is a better chance that your players will stay (and that you can afford to keep them), and so the better your chance of going back up. Once you've been up a while youve gor an expensive squad, some of whom are too good for the championship, and some of whom think they're too good for it. The chance of going back up in that situation are greatly reduced.
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Old 08-12-2018, 11:02 AM
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Then you get the gradual creep of expectations. The longer you stay up, the better some people think you should be doing. For a club our size a successful fight against relegation, ultimately finishing 14th-17th, is a success, but it’s sometimes a bit turgid year after year, and people convince themselves the club has the right to expect to be doing better (not helped when the chairman also says this).

And then as you say, the money, or more pertinently the amount of it you commit to sending out of the club, just rolls up and can spiral out of control.
I think we talk ourselves in to this so called relegation battle each year. I agree we are in the mix right up to the last few weeks but previous years show we aren't anywhere near at the end. 15th is our worse year so far. We were relegated after 7 games last season and we're relegated now according to some people.

13-14 finished 11th 12pt and 19 GD in front of 18th
14-15 finished 10th 13pt and 14 GD in front of 18th
15-16 finished 15th 5pt and 9 GD in front of 18th
16-17 finished 14th 12pt and 30 GD in front of 18th
17-18 finished 11th 11pt and 18 GD in front of 18th

My expectation is that we are a mid table team, no team has a right to be in this league but we have earnt it over the years and this year will be no different.
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Old 08-12-2018, 11:11 AM
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I think we talk ourselves in to this so called relegation battle each year. I agree we are in the mix right up to the last few weeks but previous years show we aren't anywhere near at the end. 15th is our worse year so far. We were relegated after 7 games last season and we're relegated now according to some people.

13-14 finished 11th 12pt and 19 GD in front of 18th
14-15 finished 10th 13pt and 14 GD in front of 18th
15-16 finished 15th 5pt and 9 GD in front of 18th
16-17 finished 14th 12pt and 30 GD in front of 18th
17-18 finished 11th 11pt and 18 GD in front of 18th

.
I agree (up to your last para which I've deleted), and it was sort of my point (although being in a rush I didn't expand on it); success for us would be a successful relegation fight finishing 14th-17th and actually we've exceeded that, but the danger is we get suckered in to expecting a 13th+ finish and that's where the danger lies, if we don't automatically look like getting it the knives are out and it's "sack the manager" etc etc and more instability follows, which in turn heightens the risk of relegation.
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Old 08-12-2018, 11:17 AM
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It's a bit of a "next level" conversation if anything. This is essentially trying to be like Everton, consistently top 10 with occasional dabbles in Europe but most importantly no risk of relegation. No other club has ever achieved it, the latest being Leicester's attempt.
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