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  #41  
Old 25-06-2016, 07:34 AM
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So day 2 following the result, we now have

No extra funding for NHS
that freedom of movement will stay and there may be no difference in immigration numbers at all
That (digby whatever his name is now on BBC being interviewed), there will be financial pain but worth it, Moody's downgrade, borrowing now more expensive
Repealing various directives including the working time directive (aka workers protection)

My in laws not happy at all, they thought Johnny Foreigner was going to be sent home.
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  #42  
Old 25-06-2016, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
Capitalism has gone bad.

Something seriously wrong when the super rich get richer while the poor get poorer.

Hard to understand why people seem to just accept it and wait for the trickle down.
But is the EU the right target? It's one institution that tried to pour funds into depressed areas, much more so than Westminster.
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  #43  
Old 25-06-2016, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Eagle Kneevil View Post
But is the EU the right target? It's one institution that tried to pour funds into depressed areas, much more so than Westminster.
No it wasn't.

In fact it could have been our safety net, for the disparity getting even worse.

One thing I do not undertand is some people seem to have this belief that in leaving the EU we all now have more power to shape the Britain we want. Power is still in the hands of a few and our influence is no greater or smaller on brexit.
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  #44  
Old 25-06-2016, 07:44 AM
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I can respect Bubbs point of view. But I'm also reminded of the fervour for tackling climate change in Australia. As soon as the cost showed up on people's utility bills, the mood switched fast and Abbott ran (and won) on repealing it. Which he did.
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  #45  
Old 25-06-2016, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ExiledStirling View Post
Capitalism has gone bad.

Something seriously wrong when the super rich get richer while the poor get poorer.

Hard to understand why people seem to just accept it and wait for the trickle down.
Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of people with the nastiest motives will somehow work for the benefit of us all
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  #46  
Old 25-06-2016, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Eagle Kneevil View Post
I can respect Bubbs point of view. But I'm also reminded of the fervour for tackling climate change in Australia. As soon as the cost showed up on people's utility bills, the mood switched fast and Abbott ran (and won) on repealing it. Which he did.
There was an episode of The Simpsons which had a bear problem (someone saw a bear) which led to a bear tax, which became massively expensive and unpopular, which led to Quimby blaming it all on immigrants, which led to a vote on deporting all immigrants. Which led to the deportation of a Scotsman.

It was also the first time the line "won't someone think of the children" was used.
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  #47  
Old 25-06-2016, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by swissroll View Post
So day 2 following the result, we now have

No extra funding for NHS
that freedom of movement will stay and there may be no difference in immigration numbers at all
That (digby whatever his name is now on BBC being interviewed), there will be financial pain but worth it, Moody's downgrade, borrowing now more expensive
Repealing various directives including the working time directive (aka workers protection)

My in laws not happy at all, they thought Johnny Foreigner was going to be sent home.
Errrrmm wil take at least 2 yrs before we stop paying into the EU, or do you think you just cancel the DD and run around throwing money away?!!
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  #48  
Old 25-06-2016, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by bubbs11 View Post
I do understand all that and i'm not belittling the real concerns and fears people are feeling at this time re. their own economic future.

But I do feel that in the last 20 years or so we've entered this mind set as a nation where finances are given far too much air time and importance. It of course suits those at the very top who stand to gain most to have the masses obsessed with capitalism: their finances, house prices etc... You need the 'slaves' to buy into your ethos to keep your power flowing.

I'm not religious by any stretch of the imagination, but I do feel we have strayed from the path somewhat, and the real hysteria over 'the economy' this last 24hrs goes a long way to prove this.
30 + years. You're talking about Thatcherism. The most vocal pro Brexit/ anti EU people are the children of Thatcher.

These people want to take back power for themselves, not the general populace of this country. We are not going to see the rebuilding of communities that have been destroyed over the last 30 years, we as a society are way past that. If anything we will see communities further eroded as their funding is further cut due to no longer receiving EU funding and the British government makes, at least in the short term, further fiscal cuts.

As someone who works in the public sector I am aware that many public services are currently at the breaking point. I feel we have some dark, bleak winters to look forward to. On the plus side it should bring back a sense of community as society breaks down. Here's hoping.
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  #49  
Old 25-06-2016, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
There was an FT graph that showed those areas that were most financially dependent on the EU were those that most voted to leave.

I don't know whether that's a deliberate reaction to that EU dependence or taking things out on the wrong target

The areas get the money but maybe the individuals in those areas don't feel that it is spent on things that are meaningful to them. What might these Welsh areas actually be spending the money on?
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  #50  
Old 25-06-2016, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Pistol Knight View Post
Errrrmm wil take at least 2 yrs before we stop paying into the EU, or do you think you just cancel the DD and run around throwing money away?!!

These are campaign promises Brexit have already rolled back on - and lets face it immigration and nhs were pretty high on the agenda
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  #51  
Old 25-06-2016, 09:09 AM
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These are campaign promises Brexit have already rolled back on - and lets face it immigration and nhs were pretty high on the agenda
They obviously cared little about keeping any promises, they just needed the result.
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  #52  
Old 25-06-2016, 09:11 AM
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Perhaps the people in the areas that voted to leave are expecting everyone to subsidise them instead?
**** that.
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  #53  
Old 25-06-2016, 09:15 AM
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The rich will be fine. The Jeremy Kyle brigade will get their handouts. Those in the middle will face the consequences. Obvious,
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  #54  
Old 25-06-2016, 09:22 AM
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Ford considers UK job cuts after Brexit vote as carmakers eye future - Country produces 1.6m autos annually, mostly for export

The group, which closed two UK plants in 2012 with the loss of thousands of jobs, said it “will take whatever action is needed” to keep its operations competitive.

Many of the world’s largest car groups have manufacturing operations across Britain, and about 80 per cent of the cars that roll off UK production lines are destined for export — half of those to the rest of the EU.

Nick Gill, automotive expert at Capgemini, said: “If I’m a carmaker and I’m taking a decision on where next to place my model, are you going to do it in a market that’s small with concerns around currency and its distribution into other markets, or will you put it [in a place] with safety in currency and a large market for sales?”
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  #55  
Old 25-06-2016, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
There was an FT graph that showed those areas that were most financially dependent on the EU were those that most voted to leave.

I don't know whether that's a deliberate reaction to that EU dependence or taking things out on the wrong target
It's a complete and utter lack of understanding

Not one leave voter I spoke to knew any of:

Norway have free movement of people as a condition of trade with eu

Norway pays 80% of what the uk do with no influence

*i start with Norway because all leavers ever seemed to say was we'll do a Norway, while we line up our deals... Sure Norway pay nothing and have no immigration!

We get over half of our eu membership costs back in money to nhs, research, industry etc...

Our eu membership is about 4% of our budget... After the money we get back it's about 0.5% of our budget... Leaving will likely cost us 10-20% of our economy

That'll do it's done... We need to stop fighting and embrace positivity to try to get confidence in the uk.... It can be a sucess but everyone needs to pull together now and find a decent leader. The point was, lots of the leave vote, most of it was through ignorance
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Old 25-06-2016, 09:26 AM
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City of London may lose 'passport' - ECB council member

The City of London is at risk of losing its prized “EU passport”, according to a European Central Bank Governing Council member, who added that Brexit talks must be carried out quickly to limit uncertainties.

The City of London will not be able to keep that passport if Britain leaves the EU’s single market of trade in goods and services, Francois Villeroy de Galhau told France Inter radio.

“There is a precedent, it is the Norwegian model of European Economic Area, that would allow Britain to keep access to the single market but by committing to implement all EU rules,” he said.

“It would be a bit paradoxical to leave the EU and apply all EU rules but that is one solution if Britain wants to keep access to the single market.”
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  #57  
Old 25-06-2016, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbs11 View Post
I do understand all that and i'm not belittling the real concerns and fears people are feeling at this time re. their own economic future.

But I do feel that in the last 20 years or so we've entered this mind set as a nation where finances are given far too much air time and importance. It of course suits those at the very top who stand to gain most to have the masses obsessed with capitalism: their finances, house prices etc... You need the 'slaves' to buy into your ethos to keep your power flowing.

I'm not religious by any stretch of the imagination, but I do feel we have strayed from the path somewhat, and the real hysteria over 'the economy' this last 24hrs goes a long way to prove this.
Bubbs has hit the nail on the head, we are obsessed with finance, markets, exchange rates, futures and growth forecasts. These sort of things used to be bubbling away in the background but in recent history they are all we hear about.
The economy used to be a means to an end, now it is the end in itself.
Its wrong I tell you.
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  #58  
Old 25-06-2016, 09:39 AM
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The last decade has not been a happy one, politically or economically. The financial crisis and MP expenses scandal led to a collapse in trust in our financial and political systems. I don't think the EU was to blame for this but the right wing populist press used them and immigration as a scapegoat for all of society's problems. I was passionately in the Remain camp but I don't think enough has been done over the last decade from people of my political persuasion to persuade Leave voters otherwise.

The one positive from leaving is that this scapegoating will be shown to be the fallacy that it is. Immigration will have to continue at current levels, our economy depends on it and will be part of a free trade deal with the EU that has to be agreed. Deprived areas will continue to be deprived (more so without EU funding), politicians will still not be trusted and this whole exercise will show that the EU was not as bad for the UK as the Mail/Express/Sun/UKIP would have you believe.

I also wonder what on Earth the Mail and Express are going to have as their front page headlines from now on....
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  #59  
Old 25-06-2016, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by bigend1 View Post
It's a complete and utter lack of understanding

Not one leave voter I spoke to knew any of:

Norway have free movement of people as a condition of trade with eu

Norway pays 80% of what the uk do with no influence

*i start with Norway because all leavers ever seemed to say was we'll do a Norway, while we line up our deals... Sure Norway pay nothing and have no immigration!

We get over half of our eu membership costs back in money to nhs, research, industry etc...

Our eu membership is about 4% of our budget... After the money we get back it's about 0.5% of our budget... Leaving will likely cost us 10-20% of our economy

That'll do it's done... We need to stop fighting and embrace positivity to try to get confidence in the uk.... It can be a sucess but everyone needs to pull together now and find a decent leader. The point was, lots of the leave vote, most of it was through ignorance
In 2015 we paid about 1.1% of our total expenditure to the EU. I asked a few people what they thought it was, nearly all thought it was more than 30%

Misinformation and anti intellectualism rules.

Agree with your last paragraph.

We need an anti austerity government now that will invest to stimulate growth. Don't listen to the gutter press rubbishing Corbyn. For me he is the only one who can move us forward.
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  #60  
Old 25-06-2016, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Mojo Risin View Post
The last decade has not been a happy one, politically or economically. The financial crisis and MP expenses scandal led to a collapse in trust in our financial and political systems. I don't think the EU was to blame for this but the right wing populist press used them and immigration as a scapegoat for all of society's problems. I was passionately in the Remain camp but I don't think enough has been done over the last decade from people of my political persuasion to persuade Leave voters otherwise.

The one positive from leaving is that this scapegoating will be shown to be the fallacy that it is. Immigration will have to continue at current levels, our economy depends on it and will be part of a free trade deal with the EU that has to be agreed. Deprived areas will continue to be deprived (more so without EU funding), politicians will still not be trusted and this whole exercise will show that the EU was not as bad for the UK as the Mail/Express/Sun/UKIP would have you believe.

I also wonder what on Earth the Mail and Express are going to have as their front page headlines from now on....
Voting Tory cures alzheimers?
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