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  #141  
Old 19-08-2015, 07:08 AM
M Padovano M Padovano is offline
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Originally Posted by Astrophical View Post
If his shot was a few inches to the left, people on this forum would be raving about him. His full debut for us, starting upfront in-front of players he's only been working with for two weeks, I thought he did really well. Won alot in the air, and most he did win was controlled back into teammates. Worked incredibly hard and against other teams where he'll have more chances, I think he'll look really good.
I second this.
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  #142  
Old 19-08-2015, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Astrophical View Post
If his shot was a few inches to the left, people on this forum would be raving about him. His full debut for us, starting upfront in-front of players he's only been working with for two weeks, I thought he did really well. Won alot in the air, and most he did win was controlled back into teammates. Worked incredibly hard and against other teams where he'll have more chances, I think he'll look really good.
Yeah - I would have to agree. But for sticky balls (see his post match interview) I think that would have been an impressive debut. He was very tidy with his layoffs and for a big guy seemed to have good/quick feet. He won the ball in the air more often than I expected against a top CB pairing.
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  #143  
Old 19-08-2015, 07:25 AM
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I thought Wickham did ok - he needs six games or so to really get into his stride. I must admit that I wasn't keen for us to sign him - I would have preferred a faster striker with more of a goalscoring track record but Wickham has real potential so hopefully he will realise that with us.
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  #144  
Old 19-08-2015, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Martin H View Post
I understand that we would like the CF to score a hatful of goals but Pards has said oodles of times that the way we set up it's less about the CF scoring 20+ goals and more about several of the midfielders chipping in with something like 6-10 each (dependent upon appearances). So Cabaye, Puncheon, Yala, Wilf, Chamakh will be expected to bring home their share too. CBs should rack up 6 or more between them.

This isn't a shock as this is the way the Premiership is going generally. There haven't been more than 3 players scoring 20 goals or more since 2009/10 in the Prem and 12 goals last year put you in the top 10 goalscorers for the season. 14 would make you 6th highest.
I hear what you are saying, however to expect your midfielders and defenders to score anywhere near that number would be wonderful, and the perfect scenario. Whereby, as we as well as AP know the reality is very different, if Palace could get Wickham to wade in with say 12/15 goals would be more that acceptable, but is that a possibility? I am not sure, but like most fans I do hope he succeeds.
My own view is the midfield may wade in with approx 12 goals, Defence 8/10 goals, which still leaves the need for additional goals. I would say one solution could be playing Wickham but with Bamford in support, as Both players are more effective when playing with support alongside. Unfortunately this may not be a formation that appeals to AP or some fans, but if we are to hopefully achieve a similar position as last season, then we Will need to score a lot more goals, and this could a solution.
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  #145  
Old 19-08-2015, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigelbrag View Post
I hear what you are saying, however to expect your midfielders and defenders to score anywhere near that number would be wonderful, and the perfect scenario. Whereby, as we as well as AP know the reality is very different, if Palace could get Wickham to wade in with say 12/15 goals would be more that acceptable, but is that a possibility? I am not sure, but like most fans I do hope he succeeds.
My own view is the midfield may wade in with approx 12 goals, Defence 8/10 goals, which still leaves the need for additional goals. I would say one solution could be playing Wickham but with Bamford in support, as Both players are more effective when playing with support alongside. Unfortunately this may not be a formation that appeals to AP or some fans, but if we are to hopefully achieve a similar position as last season, then we Will need to score a lot more goals, and this could a solution.
I think the midfielders will score a lot more than 12. I would expect over 20.
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  #146  
Old 19-08-2015, 08:26 AM
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Thought he did alright, nice touch and control at times. Certainly looks promising.

The only thing I would say negatively about his performance is he didn't seem to get through as much work as Murray or Chamakh when they start for us, something that will need to be addressed as fighting for every ball is part of what we're all about.
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  #147  
Old 19-08-2015, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by macstar View Post
33 goals in 166 games suggests he may not!
For what it's worth, Glenn Murray scored 38 goals 154 appearances at the same age as Connor Wickham is now, at a much lower level than Wickham plays now.

Goalscoring is, as Murray has shown, about finding that knack and then sticking to what works. Wickham has the opportunity to excel at Palace in a way I don't think he had at Sunderland - and I thought his performance against Arsenal was actually quite impressive given the quality of opposition.
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  #148  
Old 19-08-2015, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by GDP View Post
Thought he did alright, nice touch and control at times. Certainly looks promising.

The only thing I would say negatively about his performance is he didn't seem to get through as much work as Murray or Chamakh when they start for us, something that will need to be addressed as fighting for every ball is part of what we're all about.
There was certainly a few times on Sunday when Wickham did seem to pull out of tracking Arsenal players. My reading though, was that he was uncertain how far back to get pulled and whether the midfield should cover so he can pick up anything coming forward. I guess this is a learning curve for him and our system but I certainly didn't see it as any indication of laziness.
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  #149  
Old 19-08-2015, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nigelbrag View Post
I hear what you are saying, however to expect your midfielders and defenders to score anywhere near that number would be wonderful, and the perfect scenario. Whereby, as we as well as AP know the reality is very different, if Palace could get Wickham to wade in with say 12/15 goals would be more that acceptable, but is that a possibility? I am not sure, but like most fans I do hope he succeeds.
My own view is the midfield may wade in with approx 12 goals, Defence 8/10 goals, which still leaves the need for additional goals. I would say one solution could be playing Wickham but with Bamford in support, as Both players are more effective when playing with support alongside. Unfortunately this may not be a formation that appeals to AP or some fans, but if we are to hopefully achieve a similar position as last season, then we Will need to score a lot more goals, and this could a solution.
It's not impossible but only 5 players achieved 15 goals last year.
Aguerro, Kane, Costa, Austin and Sanchez. Setting an expectation of matching that just seems unrealistic for me and especially with Pardew's comments. That's all I was saying. Obviously if he can chip in with 15 goals or more then that would be perfect but that would put him 4th in terms of goals per game for Palace players since the Second World War.

I guess I am just keen that we don't have unrealistic expectations.
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  #150  
Old 19-08-2015, 10:05 AM
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It will be interesting to compare him with Gestede on Saturday
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  #151  
Old 19-08-2015, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin H View Post
It's not impossible but only 5 players achieved 15 goals last year.
Aguerro, Kane, Costa, Austin and Sanchez. Setting an expectation of matching that just seems unrealistic for me and especially with Pardew's comments. That's all I was saying. Obviously if he can chip in with 15 goals or more then that would be perfect but that would put him 4th in terms of goals per game for Palace players since the Second World War.

I guess I am just keen that we don't have unrealistic expectations.
That puts into perspective how difficult it is to get 15 goals. Aguero, Sanchez and Costa are clearly quality. It is to be seen whether Kane and Austin can do it again....certainly Austin can't playing in the Championship!

If Wickham gets 10-12 then he will show a good return. Question is would Murray get 10-12 over a whole season, I think probably he would or at least be very close. I see Wickham as giving us a little more than Murray is terms of all round ability but whether he turns out to be a star striker is very open to debate.
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  #152  
Old 19-08-2015, 10:16 AM
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Nigelbrag's post made me think about this in a different way.

but rather than names if you look at it like this:

48 goals should be enough for 8th (46 last year).

7 from defenders (could easily beat that with two up already)
10 from the 2 wingers (i.e. Punch has scored 6 and 7 in the past 2 seasons)
15 from the 3 midfielders
6 from pens
10 from CF

Gives 48 goals without being unreasonable for any of the positions and yet the CF only weighs in with 10. I am not saying that should be his target. More is good and I would aim the CF's at scoring 18 goals between them. The nub here is that be playing a formation that spread the goals around the team is far more achievable than relying on one dude to whack in 15.
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  #153  
Old 19-08-2015, 10:40 AM
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Ok, I will wade into this discussion. Here is a player who our academy genius Mr Issott rates as the best young player he's ever seen. Strong, big (maybe a bit too big), but quick for his size and with good technique for his size too. Both feet, and can finish as well as hold it up, link the play and dribble. In short, I believe he has everything.

He's not the finished article by any stretch, but he is so young for a centre forward of his build. He needs to experiment with his weight (pace vs strength trade-off) and style, but once he gets it right I am hoping he can be a powerful No9 in the Shearer mould. He is for me as good a summer signing as Cabaye, although we may not realise his potential until next season and beyond. Good work from CPFC2010 to get him over the line.
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  #154  
Old 19-08-2015, 11:01 AM
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Ok, I will wade into this discussion. Here is a player who our academy genius Mr Issott rates as the best young player he's ever seen. Strong, big (maybe a bit too big), but quick for his size and with good technique for his size too. Both feet, and can finish as well as hold it up, link the play and dribble. In short, I believe he has everything.

He's not the finished article by any stretch, but he is so young for a centre forward of his build. He needs to experiment with his weight (pace vs strength trade-off) and style, but once he gets it right I am hoping he can be a powerful No9 in the Shearer mould. He is for me as good a summer signing as Cabaye, although we may not realise his potential until next season and beyond. Good work from CPFC2010 to get him over the line.
You lost me (for now at least) with the 'as good as Cabaye' bearing in mind for that is by some margin one of our best ever signings, surpassed only by Lombardo. But I really do hope you are proven right. Not sure if he will develop into a Shearer but there are some similarities at a younger age.
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  #155  
Old 19-08-2015, 11:03 AM
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I find it difficult to see why Wickham should be judged by his performance at Sunderland when it is clear he was badly used in a poor side.
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  #156  
Old 19-08-2015, 11:21 AM
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There was certainly a few times on Sunday when Wickham did seem to pull out of tracking Arsenal players. My reading though, was that he was uncertain how far back to get pulled and whether the midfield should cover so he can pick up anything coming forward. I guess this is a learning curve for him and our system but I certainly didn't see it as any indication of laziness.
Yeah I certainly wouldn't put it down to laziness, like you say it's a learning curve for him, the same as it is for any new player. He'll soon get up to speed and work out what was expected of him at Sunderland is different to what will be expected of him at Palace.

Promising signs though, getting the first goal out of the way will be massive for his confidence.
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  #157  
Old 19-08-2015, 11:33 AM
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I find it difficult to see why Wickham should be judged by his performance at Sunderland when it is clear he was badly used in a poor side.
This. On here there was (is) a LOT of talk about the need to sign a player in the mold of Muzza, a big, powerful bastard of a number 9. I don't see how many players to fit that description we could have gotten at a reasonable price who would still be better than Wickham. I sure hope he turns out well, and even though he might not, I certainly think he (and for that matter Mutch, and Lee, and any other player that the manager happens to rate) should be given a fair shake over a run of games.
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  #158  
Old 19-08-2015, 11:33 AM
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Don't think this is limited to Palace fans but there is a trend to expecting a CF to run constantly like a lunatic chasing down defenders as if their life depended upon it but then be available to sprint forward and score. The CF has to pace themselves. They need to do their defensive work but a lot of that is positioning and pressing rather than sprinting 25 yards to get applause from the crowd. Equally it's important that the CF holds their position rather than being sucked inexorably back towards our goal.

However, if they aren't running around like a headless chicken then they are tagged as lazy. Fraizer Campbell gets this a lot and unfairly I think. Would like to think that we can tell the difference between a lazy striker and one playing a specific role. I am certain Pardew can and he simply wouldn't use players that are lazy.
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Old 19-08-2015, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by hihi View Post
It will be interesting to compare him with Gestede on Saturday
Agree with this especially with the rumours that we were keen to sign him.Gestede is a real bully who is an excellent header of the ball and not afraid to go in where it hurts.Dann and Deno will have to be on their toes.
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Old 19-08-2015, 11:39 AM
Crystal Paul Crystal Paul is offline
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Crystal Paul : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineCrystal Paul : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineCrystal Paul : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineCrystal Paul : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineCrystal Paul : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineCrystal Paul : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineCrystal Paul : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineCrystal Paul : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineCrystal Paul : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineCrystal Paul : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mineCrystal Paul : if all you've got to do today is find peace of mind, come round, you can take a piece of mine
Thought he did very well on Sunday, with almost no support or service.
Won his fair share of headers, held the ball up and kept possession well and hit the post.
There was a moment where he very cleverly laid the ball of to Puncheon to shoot (over), with a nice chested pass, despite falling backwards, which if it had been Murray people would be raving about his 'intelligent play'.
Has the potential to be a great #9 for us for many years to come and we should support him.
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