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  #341  
Old 12-08-2017, 11:38 PM
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Utter shambles. You hire someone to fix something that wasn't broken and don't give them the funds to do so knowing full well we don't have the players to play that system.

Cretinous. So many could see this coming.
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  #342  
Old 12-08-2017, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveP View Post
I honestly cannot believe what I'm reading on here tonight and also what the fans were saying at the game! Abusing players, shouting down the manager etc and telling him F*** Off already! It's the first game for god's sake!

Yes what we tried today didn't work, but it's a system we have used all pre season and only losing one game in the process, today was a massive learning curve and something I'm sure De Boer will be working very hard to rectify. This was his first Premier League match as a manager and he wouldn't have wanted a result like this but some of the comments are an absolute joke and quite embarrassing from some of you!

Am I not wrong in saying in early Allardyce's performances we were horrendous untill his ideas came across, so the same with De Boer in that it will take time.

I thought at times today some of the football we played at times was decent and when it clicks it will be good to watch, I still personally feel 0-3 flattered Huddersfield, if we had put away one of the many chances we did have it would have been totally different.

I'm fully behind De Boer to be successful here, and certainly won't be jumping on his back the way some of you are!
I certainly agree with the sentiment that we need to back De Boer but with a few caveats...

I'm not worried about today's result per se. I had no confidence from watching the pre-season friendlies that this system was ready for the Premier League. There are still too many players who don't quite fit it.

The problem as I see it is that we need a back up striker and a new keeper no matter what. That's already a fair chunk of change we are committed to spending if we want any quality. And that's if we play 4231.

Yet if we persist at three at the back, we also need to replace both Ward and Dann. So that's now a GK, CB, RWB and a ST. And that still leaves us with no quality cover for Wilf and Andros. That's surely too much business and money for the remainder of this summer window, especially if we are hampered by FFP. And this is all to convert to a 343 formation in the space of a couple of months.

I feel the way I felt that FdB arrived; that he would hopefully improve us technically, bring in some players able to play from the back but stick with using Wilf and Andros' pace and Benteke's physicality to get goals. If we had brought in a proper AM to add some much needed central threat, even better. Then we could have changed things for next season after the benefit of three windows of purchases.

While I have no issue with him wanting to take us into a 343 style long term, I just hope that FdB is willing to play alternative systems over this season if required. I also hope he prioritizes a ST and GK over everything because we need those positions sorted most. My fear is we will spunk more money making sure we replace perfectly good defenders like Dann and Ward to ensure the switch to three at the back and there will be little left for a back up to Benteke or a GK, which I think is potentially disastrous.

We have added enough quality that we can survive with the defenders we have now, used to their strengths, and have actually improved midfield with RLC. We can flourish with what we have, if we sort out the back up ST and GK. But if FdB is so wedded to 343 that he refuses a workable system we've used before and ignores more pressing holes in our squad to buy in defenders suited exclusively to three at the back, that's when my support for him will quickly disappear.
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  #343  
Old 12-08-2017, 11:40 PM
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OKÖReality check timeÖ.
Firstly a new system, then a lot of players playing in new positions being asked to do new roles add to that a back 3 that hasnít played together yet.
Now 3 nil is never good but letís be honest Hudders wonít get 3 goals gifted to them like those for the rest of the season and had we just taken one of the many chances it could have been so different.
Itís going to take time these are huge changes but have we got the bottle for it, players and fan alike time will tell?
There were spells where we looked better so there is hope, the real positives from the game Lofty looked real class, strong, pick a pass and carry the ball.
And Fosu looked strong and the boy can tackle the down side is Ward, looked so lost out there and had a shocking game Punch is really non-productive and in truth has been for some time.
I fear for Luca unless Frank wants a DM to sit in to allow Lofty to carry the ball forward and support the attack
Itís gonna take time people have patients
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  #344  
Old 12-08-2017, 11:44 PM
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  #345  
Old 12-08-2017, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baldeagle68 View Post
OKÖReality check timeÖ.
Firstly a new system, then a lot of players playing in new positions being asked to do new roles add to that a back 3 that hasnít played together yet.
Now 3 nil is never good but letís be honest Hudders wonít get 3 goals gifted to them like those for the rest of the season and had we just taken one of the many chances it could have been so different.
Itís going to take time these are huge changes but have we got the bottle for it, players and fan alike time will tell?
There were spells where we looked better so there is hope, the real positives from the game Lofty looked real class, strong, pick a pass and carry the ball.
And Fosu looked strong and the boy can tackle the down side is Ward, looked so lost out there and had a shocking game Punch is really non-productive and in truth has been for some time.
I fear for Luca unless Frank wants a DM to sit in to allow Lofty to carry the ball forward and support the attack
Itís gonna take time people have patients
Only doctors and nurses do.
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  #346  
Old 12-08-2017, 11:45 PM
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The EPL doesn't afford us the time to be patient, as a club we are possibly the most forgiving and understanding for any young player to learn their trade, but we are not afforded the time in modern football, we don't make the rules and we are not being unfair. Fact he needs to of learnt a big lesson today, but something tells me i don't think he has.
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  #347  
Old 12-08-2017, 11:49 PM
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patience
Nice to have an online spell checker....
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Last edited by baldeagle68; 12-08-2017 at 11:52 PM.
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  #348  
Old 12-08-2017, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveP View Post
I honestly cannot believe what I'm reading on here tonight and also what the fans were saying at the game! Abusing players, shouting down the manager etc and telling him F*** Off already! It's the first game for god's sake!

Yes what we tried today didn't work, but it's a system we have used all pre season and only losing one game in the process, today was a massive learning curve and something I'm sure De Boer will be working very hard to rectify. This was his first Premier League match as a manager and he wouldn't have wanted a result like this but some of the comments are an absolute joke and quite embarrassing from some of you!

Am I not wrong in saying in early Allardyce's performances we were horrendous untill his ideas came across, so the same with De Boer in that it will take time.

I thought at times today some of the football we played at times was decent and when it clicks it will be good to watch, I still personally feel 0-3 flattered Huddersfield, if we had put away one of the many chances we did have it would have been totally different.

I'm fully behind De Boer to be successful here, and certainly won't be jumping on his back the way some of you are!
Well said
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  #349  
Old 12-08-2017, 11:54 PM
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For those saying we need to go back to our tried and true style of play, I say this--we were playing it.

We were faced with a side we're expected to beat who hold a record of 600 minutes without scoring a goal. Tell me it's not our style to not only give them one goal, but a few and then a win on top of it. That is just as much our style as counter attacking football.

Does today suck? Absolutely. Crushing way to end all of the excitement about the start of a new season.

However, it's one loss--three points missed. It's happened before and it'll happen again. We're adopting a new style of play. That's never going to be easy...and it's certainly not to be expected that it'll come off well the first time played in anger.

I'm not surprised the knee jerk brigade are out en masse tonight. What I will say is this, there have been many that have claimed the end is nigh. I've yet to see one that was right.
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  #350  
Old 12-08-2017, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by PHIL BARBER View Post
Fact he needs to of learnt a big lesson today, but something tells me i don't think he has.
I would wager that FdB knows more about football than you know about English - and he probably knows more about English than you know about football as well.
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  #351  
Old 12-08-2017, 11:57 PM
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I would wager that FdB knows more about football than you know about English - and he probably knows more about English than you know about football as well.
what is your point
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  #352  
Old 12-08-2017, 11:58 PM
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what is your point
You have just made it for me!
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  #353  
Old 13-08-2017, 12:22 AM
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Wait till we get turned over by Brighton on our own patch
the thought of playing them has me in cold sweats right now
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  #354  
Old 13-08-2017, 12:57 AM
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Well, this one's already splitting the fan base.
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  #355  
Old 13-08-2017, 01:33 AM
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Just think we bypassed Silva(draw with Lpool) and ignored Dyche(win at Chelsea) for this clueless fool! Great work Parish.
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  #356  
Old 13-08-2017, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by solpadeine View Post
For those saying we need to go back to our tried and true style of play, I say this--we were playing it.

We were faced with a side we're expected to beat who hold a record of 600 minutes without scoring a goal. Tell me it's not our style to not only give them one goal, but a few and then a win on top of it. That is just as much our style as counter attacking football.

Does today suck? Absolutely. Crushing way to end all of the excitement about the start of a new season.

However, it's one loss--three points missed. It's happened before and it'll happen again. We're adopting a new style of play. That's never going to be easy...and it's certainly not to be expected that it'll come off well the first time played in anger.

I'm not surprised the knee jerk brigade are out en masse tonight. What I will say is this, there have been many that have claimed the end is nigh. I've yet to see one that was right.
It's not 'knee jerk.' Plenty here have said from the beginning that FdB should transition us over to 343, if at all, over a couple of seasons.

Plenty have said we are several signings away from this system and it is too many to buy and implement this quickly.

Plenty have expressed the concern that we could lose what should be a highly winnable few games at the start of the season while testing the system.

Plenty thought we'd do well to win today.

So, your condescension aside, many here saw all this coming and are rightly disappointed and concerned that the problems they foresaw came to pass. We are far from a crisis as we have strengthened the squad already and more will arrive but I think those of us 'knee jerkers' would just like some reassurance that the transfer and tactical policy for the season ahead is based on correct applications relative to what is possible with our squad rather than a blind, ideological dedication. If FdB blows all our money buying more defenders to incorporate 343 while making quality defenders like Dann redundant and also leaving us nothing to buy a quality ST or GK, then we'll be even more concerned.
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Old 13-08-2017, 02:10 AM
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Just think we bypassed Silva(draw with Lpool) and ignored Dyche(win at Chelsea) for this clueless fool! Great work Parish.
Really?

Words fail me.
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  #358  
Old 13-08-2017, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveP View Post
I honestly cannot believe what I'm reading on here tonight and also what the fans were saying at the game! Abusing players, shouting down the manager etc and telling him F*** Off already! It's the first game for god's sake!

Yes what we tried today didn't work, but it's a system we have used all pre season and only losing one game in the process, today was a massive learning curve and something I'm sure De Boer will be working very hard to rectify. This was his first Premier League match as a manager and he wouldn't have wanted a result like this but some of the comments are an absolute joke and quite embarrassing from some of you!

Am I not wrong in saying in early Allardyce's performances we were horrendous untill his ideas came across, so the same with De Boer in that it will take time.

I thought at times today some of the football we played at times was decent and when it clicks it will be good to watch, I still personally feel 0-3 flattered Huddersfield, if we had put away one of the many chances we did have it would have been totally different.

I'm fully behind De Boer to be successful here, and certainly won't be jumping on his back the way some of you are!
Spot on. People were complaining about the tactics and football before he was appointed, and for a while after he arrived. As Allardyce said: it took the defeat by Sunderland for the players to buy what he was selling.
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  #359  
Old 13-08-2017, 02:43 AM
NickinOx NickinOx is offline
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Originally Posted by solpadeine View Post
For those saying we need to go back to our tried and true style of play, I say this--we were playing it.

We were faced with a side we're expected to beat who hold a record of 600 minutes without scoring a goal. Tell me it's not our style to not only give them one goal, but a few and then a win on top of it. That is just as much our style as counter attacking football.

Does today suck? Absolutely. Crushing way to end all of the excitement about the start of a new season.

However, it's one loss--three points missed. It's happened before and it'll happen again. We're adopting a new style of play. That's never going to be easy...and it's certainly not to be expected that it'll come off well the first time played in anger.

I'm not surprised the knee jerk brigade are out en masse tonight. What I will say is this, there have been many that have claimed the end is nigh. I've yet to see one that was right.
Our old style left us with one of the worst home record in the country for several years, yet some think we should have stuck with it. That says everything.
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  #360  
Old 13-08-2017, 03:00 AM
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audreytatou audreytatou is offline
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Originally Posted by DaveP View Post
I honestly cannot believe what I'm reading on here tonight and also what the fans were saying at the game! Abusing players, shouting down the manager etc and telling him F*** Off already! It's the first game for god's sake!

Yes what we tried today didn't work, but it's a system we have used all pre season and only losing one game in the process, today was a massive learning curve and something I'm sure De Boer will be working very hard to rectify. This was his first Premier League match as a manager and he wouldn't have wanted a result like this but some of the comments are an absolute joke and quite embarrassing from some of you!

Am I not wrong in saying in early Allardyce's performances we were horrendous untill his ideas came across, so the same with De Boer in that it will take time.
I thought at times today some of the football we played at times was decent and when it clicks it will be good to watch, I still personally feel 0-3 flattered Huddersfield, if we had put away one of the many chances we did have it would have been totally different.

I'm fully behind De Boer to be successful here, and certainly won't be jumping on his back the way some of you are!
Agree with this post I think we are throwing our toys out of the pram a bit prematurely here...its like what we've become as a club and it needs to stop. Give Frank a go for feck sake....dont get me wrong its a feckin depressing way to start but give Frank a go!!
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Last edited by audreytatou; 13-08-2017 at 03:04 AM.
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