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  #101  
Old 15-11-2017, 07:06 PM
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It's a pity that this hasn't been combined with a grand plan about a new stadium close to the town centre. The Millennium stadium has made a big difference to Cardiff and likewise Croydon would benefit hugely from a having a multi purpose stadium able to host major sporting and concert events.
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  #102  
Old 15-11-2017, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by racehorse-80s View Post
Personally I only shop in the high street for clothes once or twice a year everything else is done online or I head for Oxford street for major things like furniture .
Then youíre not really their target audience.

Croydon has a population of 400,000 and rising. Thatís without including the neighbouring areas who will travel locally if you make it worthwhile. Very easy for many of those to use the trams in.

Iím sure the Westfield experts have done their research and, as said above, itís not just a retail development anyway.

Only recently weíve heard how John Lewis is going to offer a different range of services in some stores. They know a department store has to keep modern and relevant....dear old Allders failed eventually because it didnít do that, not because it was in Croydon.
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  #103  
Old 15-11-2017, 07:28 PM
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It's a pity that this hasn't been combined with a grand plan about a new stadium close to the town centre. The Millennium stadium has made a big difference to Cardiff and likewise Croydon would benefit hugely from a having a multi purpose stadium able to host major sporting and concert events.
Not enough affordable space available within Croydon, as you have to factor in a large doughnut of land around the stadium as well as the land needed for the stadium itself.

Years ago the land beside East Croydon station was considered, but it turned out to be too small to be worth the investment. From memory I think they estimated it could hold only 10,000 max, so couldn’t attract an anchor talent, such as Palace.

Cardiff and Southampton have been fortunate to have comparatively cheaper rough land that they could persuade their councils to develop.
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  #104  
Old 15-11-2017, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by racehorse-80s View Post
I never said the Cable car was in Stratford it was just part of my day trip . As for the Olympic park area the media recently reported how the surrounding areas were not being maintained and I agree .
You couldn’t be talking more nonsense.

Prospect East, chobham manor two brand new smart developments about to be finished to add to the East village, two brand new schools (chobham and Bobby Moore) with state of the art great facilities. Queen Elizabeth park which for the kids is as good as any park London has with all the facilities maintained brilliantly from the olympics. A popular shopping centre and the orbit have added a slide that is proving exceptionally popular.

The park and the area around Olympic Park way and celebration avenue are very smart and well looked after. I have no idea what you mean or what you are talking about. Which part is not well maintained? The only part I can think of is outside the “olympic” part and that is Stratford shopping centre and the bus garage. Otherwise I would have to guess you haven’t properly visited to even say it.

In fact the main criticism has been the fact it’s too “new” feeling and security is employed to patrol and keep it that way.

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Last edited by scro; 16-11-2017 at 09:38 AM.
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  #105  
Old 15-11-2017, 09:47 PM
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I've seen the yacht that Aussie Westfield developer owns, docked in Canary Wharf. Huge great £100m 3-storey high.
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  #106  
Old 16-11-2017, 07:17 AM
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Hardly a balanced appraisal of the proposal.

Mind you the part that made me laugh was:

But councillor Joy Prince warned: "We will have to keep a very close eye on this and insist on quality."


Croydon Council have always allowed the most hideous things to be built in Croydon and have never really been able to keep a close eye on quality. Just look at the HSBC building and that big purple thing that has gone up in the past 20 years.

I hope they can vastly alter the centre of croydon but if they are solely concentrating on the whigift/centrale footprint they are missing the problem which is the area leading to that from east croydon, st georges walk and the area around west croydon train and bus stations.
I like Inside Croydon; it's like having a Private Eye devoted to our home town.

I have no faith in Croydon Council, architects or developers to do anything other than put up ugly, low-quality and inhuman development which will have a hugely detrimental impact on the surrounding areas and people. Anything else would be a triumph of hope over experience.
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  #107  
Old 16-11-2017, 07:21 AM
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Wait until you see this thing that has already been approved..
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Love this bit:

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It’ll stand taller than Canary Wharf, the Crystal Palace radio mast or every single chicken shop in Croydon stacked
I thought it had already been approved, but it illustrates clearly what is wrong with modern architecture, and Croydon Council's supine reaction to it.

But will such a grandiose plan ever get built? Hopefully not.
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  #108  
Old 16-11-2017, 07:32 AM
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I agree, I don't see how giving up is an option in london's biggest borough. If you subscribe to the idea that Crystal Palace has potential then you have to consider the centre of Croydon has at least some potential to not be a total eyesore dump that people avoid.

People keep telling me what wonderful transport links Selhurst park has. Well croydon has unbelievably good transport links. Unless the a'se has fallen out of going to the shops (one visit to stratford or a look at my mrs' credit card suggests not) there is potential to make croydon a much more desirable and used destination.

It seems a shame to me that it takes a massive sporting event like the olympics for this kind of thing to be handled properly and achieved impressively.
Crystal Palace has the advantage of a large supply of Victorian middle-class housing stock that can be done up and look good. Croydon had loads of the same, until it was blitzed by the Council in the 1960s. Remnants remain on the fringes of the town centre, but not enough to create a nice area on a big scale like Clapham, increasingly Brixton, and similar places.

Palace also has the advantage of being a bit nearer: zone 3. Croydon is zone 5. Trendy young professional types, the ones who drive gentrification, will not live this far out. They seldom look outside of zone 2, and unless they're posh, certainly not south of the river.
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  #109  
Old 16-11-2017, 07:35 AM
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Im actually pretty excited for this. The new entrqnce to east croydon via the bridge will allow a commuter pathway to the new shopping centre. People wont have to walk down george street.
Er, the Wellesley Road pedestrian subway is pretty bloody grim! Even if you give it a lick of paint and exterminate the tramps it's always going to be unpleasant.
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  #110  
Old 16-11-2017, 07:43 AM
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I agree with you about the new apartment block, and I couldnít see why Croydon Council thought having such a huge tower was a good thing. But Iím old school.
I don't think it's necessarily impossible to make a good, large apartment block. It's just that that certainly isn't one.

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However, I disagree with your last paragraph. Take a drive south of Croydon and there is loads of money in the borough....look at the houses and the blingy cars. The problem at the moment is that many of those people spend their money elsewhere because they simply donít enjoy visiting central Croydon in its current state. Even the car parks are bad, with the possible exception of the Centrale one.

Mrs Moneybags of Woldingham in her X5 BMW doesnít want to struggle to drive it round the Whitgift car park, to fit in spots that donít even allow her to open her car door properly. So sheís currently off to Bluewater to meet her friends in Bills cafe or similar.
I've puzzled about this, as I live in Kenley, and you're right, there appears to be lots of money in the south of the borough, and almost none of the amenities. I put it down to the built environment: why would you go leisure shopping in ugly, grimy, noisy Croydon when you could go to Reigate? Or Tunbridge Wells or Guildford? Why would you meet your friends for a coffee in Purley when you could go to Westerham? Why would you have a Sunday pub lunch in Coulsdon when there are any number of country dining pubs a few miles south?

The central and suburban areas of Croydon are not attractive compared to the competition. So the competition wins out in many times.
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  #111  
Old 16-11-2017, 07:46 AM
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Crystal Palace has the advantage of a large supply of Victorian middle-class housing stock that can be done up and look good. Croydon had loads of the same, until it was blitzed by the Council in the 1960s. Remnants remain on the fringes of the town centre, but not enough to create a nice area on a big scale like Clapham, increasingly Brixton, and similar places.

Palace also has the advantage of being a bit nearer: zone 3. Croydon is zone 5. Trendy young professional types, the ones who drive gentrification, will not live this far out. They seldom look outside of zone 2, and unless they're posh, certainly not south of the river.
Have you seen the prices of property in zones 1 and 2?

The young professionals have pretty much no choice but to live in the outer zones now.

East Croydon station is struggling to cope with the growth in passenger numbers as it is.
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  #112  
Old 16-11-2017, 07:51 AM
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Have you seen the prices of property in zones 1 and 2?

The young professionals have pretty much no choice but to live in the outer zones now.

East Croydon station is struggling to cope with the growth in passenger numbers as it is.
Tell that to my millennial colleagues! I've had this conversation more than once: they simply will not consider anything other than zone 1-2, and would rather house share even into their 30s than get their own place somewhere unfashionable in outer London.

Sure, East Croydon is full, but it isn't with 20-something media, IT, finance, legal types.
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  #113  
Old 16-11-2017, 07:59 AM
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Look at the prices of flats near East Croydon, and then tell me it is not booming. Of course one of the major draws is the simple fact of an easy journey into the centre of London.
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  #114  
Old 16-11-2017, 08:07 AM
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Look at the prices of flats near East Croydon, and then tell me it is not booming. Of course one of the major draws is the simple fact of an easy journey into the centre of London.
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  #115  
Old 16-11-2017, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by DANGERMOUSE View Post
Tell that to my millennial colleagues! I've had this conversation more than once: they simply will not consider anything other than zone 1-2, and would rather house share even into their 30s than get their own place somewhere unfashionable in outer London.

Sure, East Croydon is full, but it isn't with 20-something media, IT, finance, legal types.
You canít lump all 20/30 year olds together as people who all want the same thing.

Thereíll be some who want what you say, but many more who want something else. Especially if theyíre thinking about family life in future etc.

Iíve friends whose adult sons and daughters are stretching themselves to buy places in the developments such as Saffron Square. When we sold our local house recently, we had multiple offers and in the end we sold it to a couple from Caterham who wanted to live nearer to Croydon for work/transport. Others came from closer to London and now wanted more space.

The Westfield developers havenít chosen to spend hundreds of millions in Croydon for no good reason.
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  #116  
Old 16-11-2017, 08:47 AM
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2019 start and will take 7.5 years
Khan normally wants 35% affordable housing,this has only 15%
They haven't included the five high rises in the calculations
Hope khan's people see this and get an increase
Not being built in parts but as a whole so Croydon will be shut/gridlock for those 7.5 years
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  #117  
Old 16-11-2017, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by DANGERMOUSE View Post
Crystal Palace has the advantage of a large supply of Victorian middle-class housing stock that can be done up and look good. Croydon had loads of the same, until it was blitzed by the Council in the 1960s. Remnants remain on the fringes of the town centre, but not enough to create a nice area on a big scale like Clapham, increasingly Brixton, and similar places.

Palace also has the advantage of being a bit nearer: zone 3. Croydon is zone 5. Trendy young professional types, the ones who drive gentrification, will not live this far out. They seldom look outside of zone 2, and unless they're posh, certainly not south of the river.
Sorry I meant the team! In the sense if there is a huge swathe of people south of the borough to draw from the same applies for a decent shopping centre.

Last edited by scro; 16-11-2017 at 09:56 AM.
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  #118  
Old 16-11-2017, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by disco mixx kidd View Post
2019 start and will take 7.5 years
Khan normally wants 35% affordable housing,this has only 15%
They haven't included the five high rises in the calculations
Hope khan's people see this and get an increase
Not being built in parts but as a whole so Croydon will be shut/gridlock for those 7.5 years
This project is mainly a property deal with 1000 units at around 3/400k ( A conservative estimate ) we are looking at around 4 billion upwards of sales .
Probably explains why the retail side is so reduced compared with other Westfield sites .

The council will lose some rates revenue during the building process and local retailers may suffer also who will pay for the extra infrastructure needed like Schools ,Hospitals ,Transport , etc .
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Old 16-11-2017, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by DANGERMOUSE View Post
I've puzzled about this, as I live in Kenley, and you're right, there appears to be lots of money in the south of the borough, and almost none of the amenities. I put it down to the built environment: why would you go leisure shopping in ugly, grimy, noisy Croydon when you could go to Reigate? Or Tunbridge Wells or Guildford? Why would you meet your friends for a coffee in Purley when you could go to Westerham? Why would you have a Sunday pub lunch in Coulsdon when there are any number of country dining pubs a few miles south?

The central and suburban areas of Croydon are not attractive compared to the competition. So the competition wins out in many times.
I know what you mean but some of those places either aren't that close by or simply aren't particularly extensive shops wise. I don't think Croydon will be trying to attract those that want a surrey village/town feel. Let's face it if the great and the good of kent and essex are prepared to travel to dartford for bluewater and Lakeside similar surrey/south london types won't be against the idea of heading to croydon if the shopping centre is decent and means you don't have to feel like you have actually been to croydon.

I think the reduced scale of the shopping part is a great shame as it will prevent it from becoming a destination people head for and i think that is important to repairing croydon's reputation.
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Old 16-11-2017, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by racehorse-80s View Post
My heart races at night when I walk through the High street wondering whether I will get out the out the other end alive
The rape , Stabbing and murder rates in Croydon and nearby areas are horrendous.

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I walk through Croydon a lot and, as far as I can tell, I've never once been raped, stabbed or murdered.
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