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  #3061  
Old 03-08-2016, 12:51 PM
Hpalace Hpalace is offline
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
I will certainly not accept the result of any election that over-turns the Brexit victory.

If you subsequently want to campaign for another vote, or even as a matter of policy, for the UK to reapply to join the EU, then absolutely no issues around that what so ever.

But ANY attempt to scupper our departure now has to be opposed in any and every way possible.
But if we have not left yet why would we need to reapply? In this unlikely (ha ha) scenario we will have a remain government elected by the people for the people and elected with a clear mandate.

Would you still violently oppose the democratic will of the people just because it was not your will? I thought us remainers were trampling on democracy according to you. You seem to be at odds with yourself?
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  #3062  
Old 03-08-2016, 12:53 PM
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Ooh what happened has there been some positive news? I see Mat Ov has spat his dummy so that's got to be good.
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  #3063  
Old 03-08-2016, 12:56 PM
Hpalace Hpalace is offline
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Originally Posted by Sick Bucket View Post
Ooh what happened has there been some positive news?
Nope - just hypothesis. Lib dems have already said that given the opportunity they will campaign as a remain party and that they will insist that terms of brexit must be debated is parliament as per historical precedent.
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  #3064  
Old 03-08-2016, 12:56 PM
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Ooh what happened has there been some positive news? I see Mat Ov has spat his dummy so that's got to be good.
No, Mat just gets interestingly wound up by discussion of Brexit.
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  #3065  
Old 03-08-2016, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
Direct action. Violence. A massive and sustained campaign to make this country ungovernable. Full on insurrection.

Or do you think people are just going to sit back and allow themselves to be shafted over this issue?
I doubt if it matters. The 52% disproportionately came from the classes that don't matter. They won't be allowed to get in the way of the City, big business and London house price rises. Get real.
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  #3066  
Old 03-08-2016, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
But any attempt to scupper us leaving the EU has to be seen as a direct attack on the democratic will of this nation and that will have consequences.
The people vote in a party that 'scuppers' Brexit.

And because this is an attack on the democratic will of the people, the people must attack the people.

Only in Mat-land.
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  #3067  
Old 03-08-2016, 01:11 PM
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I think if you get to another General Election without A. 50 being invoked, that's a pretty good sign that the government doesn't have the stomach for it.
Would all of you, Remainers and Leavers, really want an effectively single-issue general election? it sounds like a mess to me - it would mean that this one question (which is really about an instrument, rather than an ideology) had dominated two parliaments.
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  #3068  
Old 03-08-2016, 01:17 PM
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I think if you get to another General Election without A. 50 being invoked, that's a pretty good sign that the government doesn't have the stomach for it.
Would all of you, Remainers and Leavers, really want an effectively single-issue general election? it sounds like a mess to me - it would mean that this one question (which is really about an instrument, rather than an ideology) had dominated two parliaments.
I think it would be a disaster.

In this way, I'm almost with Mat in that A. 50 should be invoked sooner rather than later. The unknown seems to be worse than a known folly in many ways.
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  #3069  
Old 03-08-2016, 01:17 PM
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I quite like the notion that 52% can do what they like, while 48% and the Police, etc, they pay for - do nothing ............

I can also really see T May saying ... "Righto, as a new PM who needs to enforce her authority, I'll do abso nothing about this proposed insurrection ....." ....

On the question re elections - the country is already split. I know of people who have "cut off dead" Brexiteer relatives!!! (Not me ..!)
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  #3070  
Old 03-08-2016, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Aguila View Post
I think if you get to another General Election without A. 50 being invoked, that's a pretty good sign that the government doesn't have the stomach for it.
Would all of you, Remainers and Leavers, really want an effectively single-issue general election? it sounds like a mess to me - it would mean that this one question (which is really about an instrument, rather than an ideology) had dominated two parliaments.
I would for the sake of everyone it would latterly affect. I think it would decimate labour with remainers flocking to the lib dems, leavers flocking to the conservatives/UKIP. Would shake up the political climate of the UK and i think it needs a good shake.
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  #3071  
Old 03-08-2016, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
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My experience of the British people is that they'll sit back and take pretty much anything.

Will be surprised and possibly a little bit pleasedif you are right.
Oh my god I actually agree with smileysmith
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  #3072  
Old 03-08-2016, 01:32 PM
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Ooh what happened has there been some positive news? I see Mat Ov has spat his dummy so that's got to be good.
yes we are still leaving **** knows when though
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  #3073  
Old 03-08-2016, 01:35 PM
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Oh my god I actually agree with smileysmith


Whatever next?

Maybe you'll engage me in conversation next time you disagree with me?
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  #3074  
Old 03-08-2016, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Aguila View Post
I think if you get to another General Election without A. 50 being invoked, that's a pretty good sign that the government doesn't have the stomach for it.
Would all of you, Remainers and Leavers, really want an effectively single-issue general election? it sounds like a mess to me - it would mean that this one question (which is really about an instrument, rather than an ideology) had dominated two parliaments.
If there was a general election tomorrow UKIP, SNP and LibDems know where they stand. But Labour and the Tories bitterly divided. In those circumstances the electorate wouldn't be offered a choice in the GE. Most Tories/Labour could offer is another referendum or a free vote on the negotiated outcome.

The Government has already chosen to significantly tie its own hands by adopting Gove's proposal that the Brexit negotiations will adopt "a UK wide approach". Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland as a minimum will be represented in negotiations. May promised this to Sturgeon on her second day of being PM. That was probably constitutionally necessary as Scotland and NI voted remain but it reduces the chances of negotiations being completed before a general election
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  #3075  
Old 03-08-2016, 01:51 PM
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A bit of certainty wouldn't go a miss but alas this looks like it's tied up in procedure. So:

Second Referendum: Nope. The Act of Parliament passing the referendum went through with a pretty overwhelming majority. No threshold was set and in the scheme of things 52:48 means a big enough gap not to be challenged.

Early General Election: Nope. Fixed Term Parliament Act means no election until 2020 absent a no confidence vote or a 2/3 majority to repeal.

Giving notice: Currently bogged down in procedure. Should Parliament debate this or is it Royal Prerogative stuff. I think this is getting heard in court in September (Mishcon de Reya is acting for someone). Doping this out stops any subsequent challenge.

So yes it's a mess. I'd expect that once this action has been dealt with then the excuses not to give notice begin to run out (although note that there is no time scale for giving notice in Article 50). However, I also think the delay does take some of the temperature out internationally, although ironically it looks as if its stoking things domestically.
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  #3076  
Old 03-08-2016, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Oisin View Post
If there was a general election tomorrow UKIP, SNP and LibDems know where they stand. But Labour and the Tories bitterly divided. In those circumstances the electorate wouldn't be offered a choice in the GE. Most Tories/Labour could offer is another referendum or a free vote on the negotiated outcome.

The Government has already chosen to significantly tie its own hands by adopting Gove's proposal that the Brexit negotiations will adopt "a UK wide approach". Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland as a minimum will be represented in negotiations. May promised this to Sturgeon on her second day of being PM. That was probably constitutionally necessary as Scotland and NI voted remain but it reduces the chances of negotiations being completed before a general election
Not sure how this works if the next election isn't until 2020 yet the notice period from exercise is two years under Article 50. Unless extended by consent of all members we're done long before 2020 - that is unless notice isn't given until June 2018.
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  #3077  
Old 03-08-2016, 02:09 PM
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Whatever next?

Maybe you'll engage me in conversation next time you disagree with me?
Nah **** that
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  #3078  
Old 03-08-2016, 02:14 PM
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  #3079  
Old 03-08-2016, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by JDawg View Post
A bit of certainty wouldn't go a miss but alas this looks like it's tied up in procedure. So:

Second Referendum: Nope. The Act of Parliament passing the referendum went through with a pretty overwhelming majority. No threshold was set and in the scheme of things 52:48 means a big enough gap not to be challenged.

Early General Election: Nope. Fixed Term Parliament Act means no election until 2020 absent a no confidence vote or a 2/3 majority to repeal.

Giving notice: Currently bogged down in procedure. Should Parliament debate this or is it Royal Prerogative stuff. I think this is getting heard in court in September (Mishcon de Reya is acting for someone). Doping this out stops any subsequent challenge.

So yes it's a mess. I'd expect that once this action has been dealt with then the excuses not to give notice begin to run out (although note that there is no time scale for giving notice in Article 50). However, I also think the delay does take some of the temperature out internationally, although ironically it looks as if its stoking things domestically.
Thanks for this.

Looks more and more likely that the Tories will have to trigger A.50 early next year.
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  #3080  
Old 03-08-2016, 02:20 PM
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Indeed, Mat does profess that same, un-English faith. We should be wary of him.
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