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  #20121  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglejez View Post
but theres' no chance of a win for the Scottish Leave (Sexit ?) is there ?
God knows right now. But one thing the SNP will play big on, and will strike a chord with Scots is if they feel they are just being ignored and patronised by Westminster.

Unexpected things happen in politics these days, as has been recently proved, so who knows what the will of the Scottish people will be in a few months time.

The other thing that could happen if the SNP judge the mood wrong, is to accelerate the increasing popularity of the Tories up here, who have a very good leader in Ruth Davidson, who will be quick to put Sturgeon under pressure and in her place for any error of judgement she makes.
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  #20122  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Percy Dalton View Post
EU will not exist in 15 - 20 years time.
I keep hearing / reading that but don't see it. It's a right wing fantasy that assumes everyone in Europe hates the concept of being European as much as a sizable large percentage of people in UK do as a default position, rather than being pragmatic about it. Whatever anyone argues it has been massively beneficial economically for France/Germany/Benelux and Scandinavian countries at least for the past 60 odd years.

Why on earth would they voluntarily lose out on that and take their chances indiviually with China, US, Russia + whoever else in a growing economics power in 15 years? It makes no sense politically and economically for a large group of European nations.

I think that it probably has reached the high water mark in terms of integration politically and may well be reformed in structure (which is what everyone wants anyway). Schengen probably will go at some point - which I never really understood anyway even as a pants wetting liberal. It may lose Greece and a couple of other members completely if a couple Eastern European nations really do go fully mental in the next couple of years and the Euro may end up being a Northern European block currency eventually and lose the Med countries.

It's not going to disappear though. It benefits way too many people across Europe.

Last edited by The Norwoodsman; 24-01-2017 at 10:49 AM. Reason: So many typos
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  #20123  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racehorse-80s View Post
The exact opposite will happen and the economy will tank after the EU uses this court ruling to shaft us .
A hard brexit would **** us more far more. When Liam Fox and David Davies are involved having some scrutiny of some of their more ridiculous ideas would be a huge positive.

Theres a reason no one really uses wto tarrifs as they are no where near as preferential.

If this means we get softish brexit I'll be happy enough in the end.
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Last edited by red&blue_moomin; 24-01-2017 at 10:53 AM.
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  #20124  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Reps AJ View Post
So we have parliamentary sovereignty... aren't we all happy today?
Yes, but had Cameron thought his referendum plans through properly and not assumed the vote was to remain we would not have had this pantomime and a waste of public money.

Even as a leave supporter I believe a much more detailed plan should have been prepared in the event of a leave vote. Of course that would have taken time and Cameron and the pro EU establishment knew the longer membership of the EU was debated the more likely a leave Victoria, so they rushed it in the hope that would give them the result they wanted.
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  #20125  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglejez View Post
the issue was the Devolution thingy so nothing re timetable has changed. Even if the Liberal filth manage to get an amendment on that allows Parliament a final say on the deal there's no chance of it getting a majority.

In summary A50 will happen in March and we will leave 2 years later.
But hasn't May already said that both houses will be able to vote on the final deal.
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  #20126  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by palacea View Post
They had an agenda before looking at the evidence.
Fixed that for you.
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  #20127  
Old 24-01-2017, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Norwoodsman View Post
I keep hearing / reading that but don't see it. It's a right wing fantasy that assumes everyone in Europe hates the concept of being European as much as a sizable large percentage of people in UK do as a default position, rather than being pragmatic about it. Whatever anyone argues it has been massively beneficial economically for France/Germany/Benelux and Scandinavian countries at least for the past 60 odd years.

Why on earth would they voluntarily lose out on that and take their chances indiviually with China, US, Russia + whoever else in a growing economics power in 15 years? It makes no sense politically and economically for a large group of European nations.

I think that it probably has reached the high water mark in terms of integration politically and may well be reformed in structure (which is what everyone wants anyway). Schengen probably will go at some point - which I never really understood anyway even as a pants wetting liberal. It may lose Greece and a couple of other members completely if a couple Eastern European nations really do go fully mental in the next couple of years and the Euro may end up being a Northern European block currency eventually and lose the Med countries.

It's not going to disappear though. It benefits way too many people across Europe.
Southern Europe will of course not agrree with you and as you say leave along with some Eastern states, therefore the EU will not be the EU as it is today, but a stump all be it the more wealthy stump. In fact it will be greater Germany. Also you mention the so called right, but the EU institutions themselves are dominated by right leaning parties today.
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  #20128  
Old 24-01-2017, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maestro View Post
Bring it on if thats what they want but if there leaves then a hard border and they use the Euro.

Spain would likely block their EU entry anyway
I don't think that would be the case now. Brexit changes that game, obviously.
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  #20129  
Old 24-01-2017, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Percy Dalton View Post
Southern Europe will of course not agrree with you and as you say leave along with some Eastern states, therefore the EU will not be the EU as it is today, but a stump all be it the more wealthy stump. In fact it will be greater Germany. Also you mention the so called right, but the EU institutions themselves are dominated by right leaning parties today.
Southern Europe wouldn't agree with which part, Percy? Do you think Spain, Portugal or Italy has a large number of people wishing to leave the EU? Even ditching the euro is a minority position.
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  #20130  
Old 24-01-2017, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keltic eagle View Post
It's good that the unelected tory government has been challenged about brexit but not good that the 3 elected assemblies of Scotland, Wales and northern Ireland have been excluded from the process
Didn't the Conservatives win the 2015 general election?
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  #20131  
Old 24-01-2017, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post

This is one of the ways Britain will become more united again.
Oh it wont.
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  #20132  
Old 24-01-2017, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukesy View Post
Sentence 1 - yes
Sentence 2 - yes
Sentence 3 - Definitely NO if you heard the SNP deputy leader on the radio ten minutes ago! Second independence referendum in Autumn 2018 is the SNP's official stance now.
4. Bye bye SNP. They chose suicide.
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  #20133  
Old 24-01-2017, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Biggineagle View Post
Oh it wont.
All the while you've got the likes of Farage spouting his nasty divisive bile, you're probably right.
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  #20134  
Old 24-01-2017, 11:33 AM
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The hopelessly out-of-their-depth Brexiters in the Government are properly under the spotlight now as the Supreme Court forces them to actually come up with a plan rather than thinking that they can bungle their way through Article 50 without anyone seriously questioning what they're up to.
No one thought about how Brexit would happen to the point of putting a plan together before the vote and ever since, regardless of countless calls for a look at at the plan, the Govt have steadfastly refused to say how it's going to be done aside from the odd meaningless detail-less statements.

And all this now to be done before the end of March? Ha!
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  #20135  
Old 24-01-2017, 11:44 AM
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After todays ruling there is now a loss of bargaining power , indecision , Party politics coming into play more , Increased Division , resentment by those who voted for a hard brexit and a boost to the right-wing .
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  #20136  
Old 24-01-2017, 11:52 AM
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Interesting article on Bloomberg this morning. The unexpected hard winter in Europe has led to a boost for gas and electricity generation in the UK with gas exports to France at high levels and record electricity generation in the UK. Add the start of the Catcher gas field and it will be a positive boost to GDP in the first quarter. Remember also that large parts of Cumbria and Yorkshire were submerged this time last year. Those waiting for bad news may have to be patient for a little longer.
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  #20137  
Old 24-01-2017, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Aguila View Post
Southern Europe wouldn't agree with which part, Percy? Do you think Spain, Portugal or Italy has a large number of people wishing to leave the EU? Even ditching the euro is a minority position.
Italy has a growing number questioning the EU and a larger number wanting to ditch the Euro. Spain and Portugal not so much mainly due to their recent political history, they see the EU as a safeguard against the return of dictators. However maybe the question will be will the EU be prepared to keep bailing them out or as they move closer to political and financial union if things have not improved for the south politically they will want to go down that route and be dictated to by the more powerful north.

Time will tell an like we saw with the Eastern block things can crumble quickly.
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  #20138  
Old 24-01-2017, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SE25 exile View Post
A victory for genuine UK parliamentary sovereignty.

Article 50 will now go ahead on time, but with the proper wider scrutiny that the people of this country deserve.

This is one of the ways Britain will become more united again.
Yep.
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  #20139  
Old 24-01-2017, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racehorse-80s View Post
The exact opposite will happen and the economy will tank after the EU uses this court ruling to shaft us .
We're trying to leave the EU and the benefits that membership brings us. How exactly are the EU trying to shaft us?
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  #20140  
Old 24-01-2017, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by racehorse-80s View Post
After todays ruling there is now a loss of bargaining power , indecision , Party politics coming into play more , Increased Division , resentment by those who voted for a hard brexit and a boost to the right-wing .
That's the Parliamentary sovereignty you voted for. You should be pleased.
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