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  #21  
Old 20-09-2017, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by El Aguila View Post
They had already held the first free elections and elected a Parliament with members of every party and under universal suffrage, 18 months before the vote on the constitution.
I don't think it was as solid as all that. 23F proved that. The constitution was a least worst solution for many in Catalunya. Something to build on without upsetting the military too much.
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  #22  
Old 20-09-2017, 03:33 PM
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Like they voted with their fingers crossed?
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  #23  
Old 20-09-2017, 03:40 PM
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The financial implications of this for both sides are very nasty. (I cannot comment on the nationalism as I don't fully understand it).
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  #24  
Old 20-09-2017, 04:15 PM
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If the vote goes in favour of independence, why wouldn't they just go for UDI? Dare Madrid to send in the tanks. Hope they don't myself, but what would be the reason to stop them? If they don't, if I was a Catalan independencist, I'd think my leaders had bottled it.
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  #25  
Old 20-09-2017, 04:25 PM
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Yes, they've stated openly that they will secede if the vote goes in favour. Even if only one person votes.
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  #26  
Old 20-09-2017, 04:34 PM
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Thanks. Fair enough, makes sense. The Spanish state has done well to come out looking even worse than the Catalan fetish brigade.
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  #27  
Old 20-09-2017, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Elephant with mouse gyp View Post
Thanks. Fair enough, makes sense. The Spanish state has done well to come out looking even worse than the Catalan fetish brigade.
Indeed, took a lot of work to manage that.
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  #28  
Old 20-09-2017, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Selhurst Celtic View Post
To try and get inside information, El Ag fluffs the illuminati. I wouldn't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.
Or anything that goes in, to be fair.
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  #29  
Old 20-09-2017, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
The financial implications of this for both sides are very nasty. (I cannot comment on the nationalism as I don't fully understand it).
Pretend one side is comprised of greedy Londoners.
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  #30  
Old 20-09-2017, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Brett View Post
Pretend one side is comprised of greedy Londoners.
This works.
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  #31  
Old 20-09-2017, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett View Post
Pretend one side is comprised of greedy Londoners.
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  #32  
Old 20-09-2017, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett View Post
Pretend one side is comprised of greedy Londoners.
I don't think working class Londoners struggling with low wages and high rents are greedy at all. They do face problems due to the over centralisation of the UK economy though and the resulting high rents. Re Catalonia, Spain has very high levels of internal migration and there are many residents in Catalonia who are originally from Andalucia, Valencia, Murcia and Extramadura, so their rights would have to be safeguarded. Big issues to be resolved would be the central bank and unlike the Scottish indyref the issue of a banking union has already been in the press. A coralito would be in place very quickly.

Last edited by Nth Kent Eagle; 20-09-2017 at 06:18 PM.
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  #33  
Old 20-09-2017, 06:09 PM
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Watching this with great interest
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  #34  
Old 20-09-2017, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Aguila View Post
This works.
Some of the locals where I am think Madrid and Catalonia do quite well already. Lot of Real fans in the bars though. Off season a Real match on telly is the best way to fill a bar, although they all leave in mass the minute the game finishes. The Athetico supporters are always more raucous than those of Real or Barcelona.
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  #35  
Old 20-09-2017, 06:42 PM
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Madrid and Catalonia are the two richest and most privileged regions of Spain - Madrid has benefitted from the court and Catalonia from commerce.
Catalonia's rich want to pay less taxes and it has been dressed up in patriotic sentiment. You will find the discourse is dressed up in how much harder Catalans work and how much more serious and democratic they are and this plays well in the countryside. Puigdemont comes from this culture. The governing party in Madrid gets no votes in Catalonia and whips up nationalist fervour and votes with anti-catalan um, racism? Nationalism?
Both these sides benefit from this and I would suggest, nobody else does; and I would not be surprised if it ends in violence. It is all simply shit for the rest of us, and divisive shit at that.
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  #36  
Old 20-09-2017, 06:47 PM
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If you drive over the border the small towns inland are covered in flags. You'd think that 100% were separatists which is why support is hard to call. Unanism basically.
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  #37  
Old 20-09-2017, 06:55 PM
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Can we have a poll?
Many on here would like to see the back of the Poll.


So here you are...


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  #38  
Old 20-09-2017, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
If you drive over the border the small towns inland are covered in flags. You'd think that 100% were separatists which is why support is hard to call. Unanism basically.
There is great support for independence in the small towns, always has been. Rajoy's achievement has been to provoke a huge increase in support for independence in the rest of Catalonia (in my time here it has always increased significantly when the PP is in power).
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  #39  
Old 20-09-2017, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
If you drive over the border the small towns inland are covered in flags. You'd think that 100% were separatists which is why support is hard to call. Unanism basically.
I got it at second reading - isn't it called unanimism? In any case you are right.
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  #40  
Old 20-09-2017, 07:22 PM
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I got it at second reading - isn't it called unanimism? In any case you are right.
Yes, sorry, it is.
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