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  #101  
Old 24-09-2017, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
Not an easy one. If the central governmemt allows the Catalans to keep more of their taxes then the rest of Spain gets less. So less money for regions a lot poorer than Catalonia. Then even more Valencianos, Andalucians and Murcians move to Catalonia for work. The Catalans then feel even more threatened by socio-demographics.
That wouldn't have to change. They could still come for work in an independent Catalunya. Just as they are free to work in Germany, France or Ireland.

Learning the local lingo is a good way to improve job prospects/integrate.
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  #102  
Old 24-09-2017, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by adrenalin john View Post

The thing about Catalans is they are generally pretty open to the rest of europe and the world. They just have a problem with Madrid - and its fascist history. I get that, even if I like you I am not a fan of top down nationalism, I don't think they will hate the rest of the world only castille.
The propaganda nowadays refers to Espanya, not Madrid - "Espanya ens Roba". You're out of date - the high speed trains and business links and the comparative lack of enthusiasm for Catalan nationalism in Barcelona have made the Barcelona / Madrid argument less fertile ground for this.
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  #103  
Old 24-09-2017, 09:41 AM
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They'd be too busy listening to ethnicy jazz on their five grand stereos
Ethnicy Jazz?
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  #104  
Old 24-09-2017, 12:18 PM
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The propaganda nowadays refers to Espanya, not Madrid - "Espanya ens Roba". You're out of date - the high speed trains and business links and the comparative lack of enthusiasm for Catalan nationalism in Barcelona have made the Barcelona / Madrid argument less fertile ground for this.
To be frank with the election of Trump and the vote for Brexit I am finding it difficult enough to relate to the countries I work, do business and live in today let alone one I lived in 30 years ago.

I am out of date, yes. The centre of town and barrios where my friends and I lived are greatly changed and, in parts, swamped with tourists. Even the Modelo is closed, not that I ever wish to return there.

However Barcelona and its immediate surrounds must account for 50% of the population of Catalunya. So if Barcelona is not pro-independence then what is the worry about having a vote? They could be no chance of it winning.

But I honestly don't know where I stand on Catalan independence. As you rightly say I am out of touch. On the one hand nationalism is a dangerous genie to let out of the bottle even in the most benign of environments, but I sentimentaly side with the Catalans over how their language, freedom and culture was brutally repressed by an over bearing centrist power structure under Franco. How much of that is still in place I don't really know. But sending in 6000 police shows the state is still very much serving itself against people not looking to respect and reflect people's interests.
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  #105  
Old 24-09-2017, 01:21 PM
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Ethnicy Jazz?
Any way to parade their snazz.
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  #106  
Old 24-09-2017, 02:27 PM
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Well, there was always going to be a point where they sent in the rozzers. I suppose Rajoy could have waited until the Catalan government proclaimed the secession on the 2nd of October. The whole thing has played out in the macho tradition between the Generalitat and the Spanish government, neither willing to stand back or negotiate.
You could equally say that insisting you're going to proclaim independence for a region where you know fifty per cent is against independence is pretty pig-headed and self serving. It's a plague on both their houses for me.
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  #107  
Old 26-09-2017, 12:46 PM
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The guardia civil has closed lots of websites connected to the referendum. Like people can't get around that.

Good to know that the Franco foundation website is still open though.
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  #108  
Old 26-09-2017, 01:29 PM
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Is there a kind of plague on both their houses, Alternative Ulster element? Depressing in general when you get the youths thinking flag waving is cool, but draping yourself in red and yellow deck chair off-cuts? Even FCB have the awareness to hide it away in the corner of their badge, not to spoil the red and blue. The hip hip hurrah song is shit also and Gaudi is a chocolate box artist.

What I'm trying to ask is, what is it that the young and fervent Catalan freedom lovers want to be free of Spain to do more of? Is any of it any good? We know the brute economic motive, but I mean more how do they tell the story on a myth making level, to get the blood flowing?
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  #109  
Old 26-09-2017, 03:18 PM
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That one's for Pat.
In the last week, Spanish flags have been going up all over Madrid. I even saw one flying from a flagpole of an attic flat in my barrio this weekend.
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  #110  
Old 26-09-2017, 03:38 PM
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That one's for Pat.
In the last week, Spanish flags have been going up all over Madrid. I even saw one flying from a flagpole of an attic flat in my barrio this weekend.
There are a few new ones round here too. The only winners in this are the Chinese. They'll sell you any flag you want and the more the merrier

Also the economic angle is not being pushed too much, I think most rational people realise that in the short term (5years) things will be tight with the inevitable boycott from Spanish consumers. After that the hope would be to be better off but the main selling point is the not being Spanish angle.
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  #111  
Old 26-09-2017, 03:52 PM
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Ethnicy Jazz?
Dead Kennedys
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  #112  
Old 26-09-2017, 04:12 PM
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I think "rational" left town on the milk train wearing Tweety Pie pyjamas.
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  #113  
Old 26-09-2017, 05:05 PM
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I think "rational" left town on the milk train wearing Tweety Pie pyjamas.
Tea spat!
Realistic then.
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  #114  
Old 26-09-2017, 05:24 PM
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That one's for Pat.
In the last week, Spanish flags have been going up all over Madrid. I even saw one flying from a flagpole of an attic flat in my barrio this weekend.
I wondered what that pic was about
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  #115  
Old 26-09-2017, 07:39 PM
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So this is all pointless ? No change ?
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  #116  
Old 27-09-2017, 09:25 AM
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Resistance is futile.
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  #117  
Old 27-09-2017, 09:36 AM
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That one's for Pat.
In the last week, Spanish flags have been going up all over Madrid. I even saw one flying from a flagpole of an attic flat in my barrio this weekend.
Flags popping up all over Coin yesterday and today, like Pat says, the Chinese shops are very happy.
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  #118  
Old 27-09-2017, 09:43 AM
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Grim. Rajoy seems like he doesn't know what he's doing; but he does, y'know, and this is his Falklands.
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  #119  
Old 27-09-2017, 09:48 AM
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Grim. Rajoy seems like he doesn't know what he's doing; but he does, y'know, and this is his Falklands.
It's ok, he's with Donald at the White House and Donald said it was "Catalan foolishness".
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  #120  
Old 27-09-2017, 09:57 AM
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Dumb and dumber.

Now the fiscalia wants the mossos to seal all the schools where voting normally happens at 6 on Friday. Putting them between a rock and a hard place. I can see them closing TV3 before Sunday.
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