Home | Forums | Gallery | Twitter
 
CPFC BBS  

Go Back   CPFC BBS » Other Sport » World of Football

Notices

World of Football All non Palace football talk - includes latest scores on Internationals and matches that affect palace.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-07-2023, 08:31 PM
davemorris04's Avatar
davemorris04 davemorris04 is offline
I'm just cheese
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kent
Age: 39
Posts: 7,885
Rep Power: 21474855
davemorris04 Sam the man is heredavemorris04 Sam the man is heredavemorris04 Sam the man is heredavemorris04 Sam the man is heredavemorris04 Sam the man is heredavemorris04 Sam the man is heredavemorris04 Sam the man is heredavemorris04 Sam the man is heredavemorris04 Sam the man is heredavemorris04 Sam the man is heredavemorris04 Sam the man is here
Underrated and Overrated players

Bumping this thread as I was randomly thinking about overrated players earlier. One which came to mind from a while back was Raul. Never seems to get mentioned much nowadays but at the time he was very hyped and always looked average when I saw him. Scored a reasonable amount of goals but not that many really and only for a few seasons. Think Madrid hyped him up more because he was an academy graduate. Pretty average player imo.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-07-2023, 08:37 PM
TAK's Avatar
TAK TAK is offline
Setting sail.
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Life on the ocean waves (Costa Rica)
Age: 57
Posts: 15,919
Rep Power: 21474862
TAK Sam the man is hereTAK Sam the man is hereTAK Sam the man is hereTAK Sam the man is hereTAK Sam the man is hereTAK Sam the man is hereTAK Sam the man is hereTAK Sam the man is hereTAK Sam the man is hereTAK Sam the man is hereTAK Sam the man is here
Moved to here because it bumped an old GDP thread and I'm pretty sure Raúl didn't play for Palace.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-07-2023, 08:39 PM
biggus mickus biggus mickus is offline
I'm watching you
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Spain
Age: 65
Posts: 45,866
Rep Power: 21367485
biggus mickus came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbiggus mickus came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbiggus mickus came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbiggus mickus came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbiggus mickus came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbiggus mickus came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbiggus mickus came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbiggus mickus came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbiggus mickus came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbiggus mickus came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbiggus mickus came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
__________________
Living a day at a time, in the EU.

Where is that bloody list ?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-07-2023, 08:42 PM
davemorris04's Avatar
davemorris04 davemorris04 is offline
I'm just cheese
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kent
Age: 39
Posts: 7,885
Rep Power: 21474855
davemorris04 Sam the man is heredavemorris04 Sam the man is heredavemorris04 Sam the man is heredavemorris04 Sam the man is heredavemorris04 Sam the man is heredavemorris04 Sam the man is heredavemorris04 Sam the man is heredavemorris04 Sam the man is heredavemorris04 Sam the man is heredavemorris04 Sam the man is heredavemorris04 Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAK View Post
Moved to here because it bumped an old GDP thread and I'm pretty sure Raúl didn't play for Palace.
My bad, he’d just about get in the starting 11 today
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-07-2023, 08:48 PM
PALACEWU's Avatar
PALACEWU PALACEWU is offline
Cruddy Clique
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Oslo
Age: 38
Posts: 11,033
Rep Power: 21474855
PALACEWU Sam the man is herePALACEWU Sam the man is herePALACEWU Sam the man is herePALACEWU Sam the man is herePALACEWU Sam the man is herePALACEWU Sam the man is herePALACEWU Sam the man is herePALACEWU Sam the man is herePALACEWU Sam the man is herePALACEWU Sam the man is herePALACEWU Sam the man is here
I never got the scramble over OG Ronaldo, Bale could have done more which is ridiculous really because he did some amazing things at RM.
__________________
Ain't enough room here to boogy.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-07-2023, 12:37 AM
Bipe Bipe is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lincs
Posts: 5,872
Rep Power: 21474853
Bipe Sam the man is hereBipe Sam the man is hereBipe Sam the man is hereBipe Sam the man is hereBipe Sam the man is hereBipe Sam the man is hereBipe Sam the man is hereBipe Sam the man is hereBipe Sam the man is hereBipe Sam the man is hereBipe Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by davemorris04 View Post
Bumping this thread as I was randomly thinking about overrated players earlier. One which came to mind from a while back was Raul. Never seems to get mentioned much nowadays but at the time he was very hyped and always looked average when I saw him. Scored a reasonable amount of goals but not that many really and only for a few seasons. Think Madrid hyped him up more because he was an academy graduate. Pretty average player imo.
Not that many...323 goals for Real Madrid, scored over 20 in 10 different seasons, sixth highest goalscorer in La Liga history.

And yet I kind of agree with you, he had a tendency to flatter to deceive in the biggest games and was a bit of a flat track bully. Flopped for Spain in the major tournaments.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-07-2023, 01:21 AM
PeterH's Avatar
PeterH PeterH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Puchuncavi. Chile
Age: 59
Posts: 68,543
Rep Power: 21474861
PeterH Sam the man is herePeterH Sam the man is herePeterH Sam the man is herePeterH Sam the man is herePeterH Sam the man is herePeterH Sam the man is herePeterH Sam the man is herePeterH Sam the man is herePeterH Sam the man is herePeterH Sam the man is herePeterH Sam the man is here
On that basis, we can start with many of the England team's golden generation.

Rooney is my first pick.
__________________
"Be under no illusion that the reality of what I'm saying is the fact of the matter."
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-07-2023, 11:47 AM
Oldtown Eagle Oldtown Eagle is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Age: 70
Posts: 2,119
Rep Power: 21474845
Oldtown Eagle Sam the man is hereOldtown Eagle Sam the man is hereOldtown Eagle Sam the man is hereOldtown Eagle Sam the man is hereOldtown Eagle Sam the man is hereOldtown Eagle Sam the man is hereOldtown Eagle Sam the man is hereOldtown Eagle Sam the man is hereOldtown Eagle Sam the man is hereOldtown Eagle Sam the man is hereOldtown Eagle Sam the man is here
Paul Ince. The Guv’nor my arse.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-07-2023, 12:07 PM
Marksf's Avatar
Marksf Marksf is offline
Man about town
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,156
Rep Power: 19952973
Marksf came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietMarksf came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietMarksf came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietMarksf came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietMarksf came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietMarksf came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietMarksf came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietMarksf came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietMarksf came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietMarksf came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietMarksf came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterH View Post
On that basis, we can start with many of the England team's golden generation.

Rooney is my first pick.
He won it all at club level. An incredible player.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-07-2023, 12:27 PM
danibutcher's Avatar
danibutcher danibutcher is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Age: 38
Posts: 3,273
Rep Power: 9015975
danibutcher came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietdanibutcher came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietdanibutcher came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietdanibutcher came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietdanibutcher came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietdanibutcher came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietdanibutcher came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietdanibutcher came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietdanibutcher came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietdanibutcher came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietdanibutcher came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterH View Post
On that basis, we can start with many of the England team's golden generation.

Rooney is my first pick.
At club level those players were world class, but for England they never reached their peak and should have won something. A lot of that is down to Ferguson instilling that “us against them” attitude.

Thing is with Rooney people forget he was playing 30+ games a season at 16 years old, which is the reason he burnt out so early in his career. He played 32 league games in his first season, most players don’t get to that total until they’re 20-21.

Someone who I’d say was underrated from that England era was Owen Hargreaves and should have been starting at the base of that England midfield. But there was too many “stars” in front of him.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-07-2023, 01:00 PM
Joelsim Joelsim is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: Tooting
Age: 53
Posts: 7,026
Rep Power: 21474838
Joelsim Sam the man is hereJoelsim Sam the man is hereJoelsim Sam the man is hereJoelsim Sam the man is hereJoelsim Sam the man is hereJoelsim Sam the man is hereJoelsim Sam the man is hereJoelsim Sam the man is hereJoelsim Sam the man is hereJoelsim Sam the man is hereJoelsim Sam the man is here
Sterling is one of the most overrated players I've ever seen.

The play almost always breaks down when he gets the ball, his decision making is terrible too.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-07-2023, 01:34 PM
CP-RJW's Avatar
CP-RJW CP-RJW is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: London
Age: 23
Posts: 29,194
Rep Power: 21474846
CP-RJW Sam the man is hereCP-RJW Sam the man is hereCP-RJW Sam the man is hereCP-RJW Sam the man is hereCP-RJW Sam the man is hereCP-RJW Sam the man is hereCP-RJW Sam the man is hereCP-RJW Sam the man is hereCP-RJW Sam the man is hereCP-RJW Sam the man is hereCP-RJW Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelsim View Post
Sterling is one of the most overrated players I've ever seen.

The play almost always breaks down when he gets the ball, his decision making is terrible too.
Overrated by who? The BBS and twatter talk about Sterling like he’s Ali Dia.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-07-2023, 01:39 PM
13thsasquatch 13thsasquatch is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Age: 36
Posts: 1,613
Rep Power: 18842873
13thsasquatch came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet13thsasquatch came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet13thsasquatch came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet13thsasquatch came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet13thsasquatch came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet13thsasquatch came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet13thsasquatch came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet13thsasquatch came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet13thsasquatch came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet13thsasquatch came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet13thsasquatch came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally Posted by PALACEWU View Post
I never got the scramble over OG Ronaldo, Bale could have done more which is ridiculous really because he did some amazing things at RM.
OG Ronaldo got ****ed by injuries/lifestyle curtailing his career and some of his early ability, but I don't think his talent was overrated - if anything it's a bit underrated these days.

Rooney burned out fairly early, especially at international level.

Zidane - elite player but it baffles me how many put him in the top 10 of all time. He wasn't that good.

Underrated - Jorge Campos, Michael Laudrup, Nandor Hidegkuti, Stoichkov, Batistuta, Jairzinho, Socrates, maybe Zico and Platini a little bit nowadays.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-07-2023, 02:02 PM
CP-RJW's Avatar
CP-RJW CP-RJW is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: London
Age: 23
Posts: 29,194
Rep Power: 21474846
CP-RJW Sam the man is hereCP-RJW Sam the man is hereCP-RJW Sam the man is hereCP-RJW Sam the man is hereCP-RJW Sam the man is hereCP-RJW Sam the man is hereCP-RJW Sam the man is hereCP-RJW Sam the man is hereCP-RJW Sam the man is hereCP-RJW Sam the man is hereCP-RJW Sam the man is here
Overrated

Ronaldinho - A childhood hero of mine, but seems to pop up in all time great lists a bit more than he deserves imo. Outside of that two year peak, he was very inconsistent, and actually pretty mediocre for Brazil, completely overshadowed by Rivaldo and obviously R9. He’s possibly the most entertaining footballer ever though, and I’d understand if that weighs more into some peoples rankings than mine.

Yaya Toure - A bit like Ronaldinho, I think he had two or three incredible years which delude some into thinking he was always a world class superstar. He was not, far from it. I promise I’m not just bitter about his record vs Palace.

Cristiano Ronaldo - Might seem a mental thing to say about one of the top 5 greatest players ever, but he was never even close to Messi’s level. That ‘debate’ single-handedly made him overrated.

Hugo Lloris - Spurs should’ve replaced him many years ago. Maybe he’s a different player for France, but I’d say he’s fortunate that the competition there hasn’t been outstanding, at least prior to the rise of Maignan.

Underrated

Wilfried Zaha - Doesn’t require much explanation. The weird hatred of Wilf from large sections of the football public clouds their ability to recognise what an excellent player he is.

Alfredo Di Stefano - Way before my time and hard to find footage of, but he seems to he regarded by football historians, and players and managers who were old enough to watch him as firmly in that top tier with Maradona, Pele and Messi. Doesn’t seem to get mentioned much by the average football fan though.

Xavi - Sort of a reverse Ronaldo. I think he was head and shoulders above Iniesta, Pirlo, Modric and others he gets compared to. For all the balon d’or’s faults, they recognised this by placing him in the all time world XI, partnered by Lothar Matthaus. One of those two is surely the best central midfielder in football history.

Marcelo - I think there was a bit of an unfair and untrue stereotype that he couldn’t defend. Phenomenal player, deserves to be talked about just as much as his right sided counterpart Dani Alves.

Michel Platini - Quite possibly the best French footballer of all time, but you don’t hear him mentioned much by the newer generations compared to Zidane or even Henry.

Andy Robertson - A little shit, but a truly excellent left back, who I think receives too little praise compared to Alexander Arnold.

Josip Ilicic - Not world class or anything, but just watch this video of his best goals. There’s legendary forwards with inferior career highlights to this. Definitely deserves a bit more recognition outside of Italy. To view the link you have to Register or Login

Last edited by CP-RJW; 02-07-2023 at 02:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-07-2023, 04:03 PM
13thsasquatch 13thsasquatch is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Age: 36
Posts: 1,613
Rep Power: 18842873
13thsasquatch came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet13thsasquatch came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet13thsasquatch came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet13thsasquatch came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet13thsasquatch came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet13thsasquatch came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet13thsasquatch came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet13thsasquatch came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet13thsasquatch came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet13thsasquatch came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet13thsasquatch came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
Overrated

Ronaldinho - A childhood hero of mine, but seems to pop up in all time great lists a bit more than he deserves imo. Outside of that two year peak, he was very inconsistent, and actually pretty mediocre for Brazil, completely overshadowed by Rivaldo and obviously R9. He’s possibly the most entertaining footballer ever though, and I’d understand if that weighs more into some peoples rankings than mine.

Cristiano Ronaldo - Might seem a mental thing to say about one of the top 5 greatest players ever, but he was never even close to Messi’s level. That ‘debate’ single-handedly made him overrated.
I think with Ronaldinho there's also a nostalgia for a different time as well that plays into people's assessment of him. It's all system football now and there's less of the individual flair and style. Ronaldinho is probably the last completely pure jogo bonito type player we've seen, even Neymar has had his natural style blunted to an extent.

This may be controversial but I'm not sure CR7 is even nailed on top 5. You'd have to leave out one of Pele, Messi, Maradona, Di Stefano or Cruyff, and I don't think he's better than any of them (or Beckenbauer and Puskas for that matter).
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-07-2023, 05:38 PM
britabroad's Avatar
britabroad britabroad is offline
Tried, but couldn't leave
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Elora, Ontario
Posts: 5,241
Rep Power: 16921851
britabroad came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbritabroad came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbritabroad came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbritabroad came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbritabroad came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbritabroad came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbritabroad came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbritabroad came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbritabroad came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbritabroad came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietbritabroad came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Add Revillino to the list of all time greats please. He was the blueprint for Maradona.
__________________
“Here's an easy way to figure out if you're in a cult: If you're wondering whether you're in a cult, the answer is yes.”

I am in the CPFC cult.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-07-2023, 06:01 PM
Joelsim Joelsim is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: Tooting
Age: 53
Posts: 7,026
Rep Power: 21474838
Joelsim Sam the man is hereJoelsim Sam the man is hereJoelsim Sam the man is hereJoelsim Sam the man is hereJoelsim Sam the man is hereJoelsim Sam the man is hereJoelsim Sam the man is hereJoelsim Sam the man is hereJoelsim Sam the man is hereJoelsim Sam the man is hereJoelsim Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
Overrated by who? The BBS and twatter talk about Sterling like he’s Ali Dia.
Overrated by Southgate, journos and commentators. He shouldn't be anywhere near the England first 11 but no one ever says anything when he starts.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-07-2023, 07:52 PM
churley1988 churley1988 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Age: 35
Posts: 1,225
Rep Power: 11213281
churley1988 came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietchurley1988 came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietchurley1988 came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietchurley1988 came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietchurley1988 came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietchurley1988 came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietchurley1988 came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietchurley1988 came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietchurley1988 came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietchurley1988 came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietchurley1988 came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Cantona definitely overrated for me, Selhurst incident aside, he was clearly a fantastic player who could have played on longer, but the PL wasn’t the competition it is now in terms of quality and competitiveness + United were easily the best year in year out.

He is and will always be a wanker, also.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-07-2023, 07:59 PM
bourne man's Avatar
bourne man bourne man is offline
analyse this
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sleepy Hollow
Posts: 3,627
Rep Power: 21474849
bourne man Sam the man is herebourne man Sam the man is herebourne man Sam the man is herebourne man Sam the man is herebourne man Sam the man is herebourne man Sam the man is herebourne man Sam the man is herebourne man Sam the man is herebourne man Sam the man is herebourne man Sam the man is herebourne man Sam the man is here
Quote:
Originally Posted by churley1988 View Post
Cantona definitely overrated for me, Selhurst incident aside, he was clearly a fantastic player who could have played on longer, but the PL wasn’t the competition it is now in terms of quality and competitiveness + United were easily the best year in year out.

He is and will always be a wanker, also.
From your age I can try and understand but with regard to *****na you cannot put the Selhurst Incident to one side ever
__________________
Keeping the Twats company
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-07-2023, 08:02 PM
mrfenandes mrfenandes is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: London
Posts: 284
Rep Power: 5841953
mrfenandes came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietmrfenandes came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietmrfenandes came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietmrfenandes came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietmrfenandes came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietmrfenandes came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietmrfenandes came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietmrfenandes came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietmrfenandes came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietmrfenandes came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietmrfenandes came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
Quote:
Originally Posted by PALACEWU View Post
I never got the scramble over OG Ronaldo, Bale could have done more which is ridiculous really because he did some amazing things at RM.
OG Ronaldo's goalscoring rate was absolutely insane, he was a frighteningly good player, personally think he's underrated as these days people weirdly think he was just a poacher rather than a dribbler who could score out of absolutely nothing. Shame his career ended the way it did, and also that he's been overshadowed by C Ronaldo by most.
__________________
Check out our football comedy series, Road to F.A. Cup!
www.roadtofacup.uk
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.