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  #1101  
Old 04-11-2016, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Kidofwonder View Post
if Theresa May's track record is anything to go by, she will try and force it through whether it's legal or not. Her home office did that many many times, and got defeated, many many times.
You can't trust her instincts - she's an authoritarian.
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  #1102  
Old 04-11-2016, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by El Aguila View Post
We certainly have.
However, it was fair enough to hope that the politicians had some idea of what they were doing and how to effect it. The rest of us have other stuff to worry about. I don't expect them to know my job but I'd like to think they know their own.
Cameron has come out of this looking like the biggest arse, and now May is beginning to outdo him.
Can't disagree with any of that.
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  #1103  
Old 04-11-2016, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Windsor_Eagle View Post
I am really struggling with how a large number of leave voters can't get their head around this. I am writing as a leave voter and I really am very pleased with yesterday's ruling. My decision was that I wanted us to leave the EU, but to my mind, the terms of exit should always have been about parliament going through parliamentary process to do that. To do so would be entirely of a British and proper democratic process.
Refreshing post. Perhaps the notion of perceived loss of sovereignty to the EU was simply a respectable fašade for leavers to articulate, despite their being wrong? It doesn't make sense given their previous arguments on this. The more erudite leavers have been careful to conditionally accept this on a 'temporary' basis. That's good of them.

It's better I suppose than admitting to a degree of racism or bigotry. Or simple nationalism. Or lack of understanding. Or a combination of all of the above.
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Last edited by Chief Brody; 04-11-2016 at 02:17 PM.
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  #1104  
Old 04-11-2016, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by El Aguila View Post
You can't trust her instincts - she's an authoritarian.
Throw it down to the vote in Parliament, say you either accept it or you don't. If you don't we call a general election for the mandate from the people (Also get's rid of the Tory pledge to remain in the single market).

Last edited by palacea; 04-11-2016 at 02:11 PM.
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  #1105  
Old 04-11-2016, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Chief Brody View Post
Refreshing post. Perhaps the notion of perceived loss of sovereignty to the EU was simply a respectable fašade for leavers to articulate, despite their being wrong? It doesn't make sense given their previous arguments on this. The more erudite leavers have been careful to conditionally accept this on a 'temporary' basis. That's good of them.

It's better I suppose than admitting to a degree of racism or bigotry. Or simple nationalism. Or lack of understanding. All a combination of all of the above.
Personally (and for leave voters that I know personally) the decision to leave was taken very late on in the debate. I took it because I simply consider the EU to be in need of enormous and meaningful reform but actually beyond it. I also feel that its future is un-divorceable from the single currency and I think it'll eventually fail. There are, of course, things that as a member state we could have some say on and influence, but I consider it (the EU) to be ideologically driven to the point of treading roughshod over opposing forces. Moreover, I felt that the June 23rd vote to be quite feasibly the last chance to extricate ourselves from the organisation before a 'remain' victory (which I fully expected around 55-45) would provide a mandate for the EU to suggest that any further reform the UK wants is rather toothless if the population by and large want to remain in - ergo, meaningful reform seems very unlikely (see Cameron's poor re-negotiation outcomes prior to the referendum).

Perhaps I am in a significant minority but when voting to leave, complete extraction from single market access (and the intertwined free movement of people) was not on my priority list and certainly xenophobic overtones of many leave voters has disappointed me greatly - but I accept that I find myself (broadly) on the same side of the fence as them in terms of vote cast.

I just would like parliament and parliamentary process to follow appropriately and allow for as much consensus on a divisive issue as possible.

Last edited by Windsor_Eagle; 04-11-2016 at 02:22 PM.
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  #1106  
Old 04-11-2016, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by palacea View Post
Throw it down to the vote in Parliament, say you either accept it or you don't. If you don't we call a general election for the mandate from the people (Also get's rid of the Tory pledge to remain in the single market).
What I mean is that I think she would like to avoid asking "the people", if she can. Don't you?
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  #1107  
Old 04-11-2016, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by palacea View Post
Throw it down to the vote in Parliament, say you either accept it or you don't. If you don't we call a general election for the mandate from the people (Also get's rid of the Tory pledge to remain in the single market).
Maybe. Unless of course they decide to put it in again...

Someone has to 'pay for' the campaign. 31% of their voters might just question who to vote for otherwise.
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  #1108  
Old 04-11-2016, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by El Aguila View Post
What I mean is that I think she would like to avoid asking "the people", if she can. Don't you?
of Course. She will also want to avoid the Lords Blocking and delay, which Nick Clegg basically promised to do this morning.

But it's a great narrative to play, I'm the only who you can trust to deliver on brexit, them against the people's will. If Parliament and the House of Lords vote against it. Labour will no doubt also campaign to uphold brexit, but I personally think they are finished now.
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  #1109  
Old 04-11-2016, 02:45 PM
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Need to get this up in front of Parliament now as soon as possible. Might actually even backfire on the Remain side because they will be exposed for what they really are i.e people who wish to dismiss the victory on June 23rd.

And let the Lords block it. It will be the last thing they ever get to block. About time we got rid of it. And I am sure all of you soc.libs would agree with me.
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  #1110  
Old 04-11-2016, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
Need to get this up in front of Parliament now as soon as possible. Might actually even backfire on the Remain side because they will be exposed for what they really are i.e people who wish to dismiss the victory on June 23rd.

And let the Lords block it. It will be the last thing they ever get to block. About time we got rid of it. And I am sure all of you soc.libs would agree with me.
Are you still advocating violence?
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  #1111  
Old 04-11-2016, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
Need to get this up in front of Parliament now as soon as possible. Might actually even backfire on the Remain side because they will be exposed for what they really are i.e people who wish to dismiss the victory on June 23rd.

And let the Lords block it. It will be the last thing they ever get to block. About time we got rid of it. And I am sure all of you soc.libs would agree with me.
As someone else commented on your previous post. Ill-judged, quick legislation is not normally good legislation. Given the importance of this, it should be given the respect it deserves.

After all, good Tommies died over two world wars for you and Biggles to have the chance to write your toys out of the pram posts and moronic memes on a football message board 70-100 years later.
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  #1112  
Old 04-11-2016, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
And let the Lords block it. It will be the last thing they ever get to block.
I don't think they will. They could use the Salisbury Convention to do so but I think they will see that as a step too far and rest on being the revising chamber. The Government could override any block but that would add a year to the process, if I've understood the rules correctly. I suspect that there will be a meeting between the Clerks to thrash out a gentleman's agreement.
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  #1113  
Old 04-11-2016, 02:51 PM
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Are you still advocating violence?
If the result of June 23rd is not honoured, then yes. Very much.
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  #1114  
Old 04-11-2016, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Chief Brody View Post
As someone else commented on your previous post. Ill-judged, quick legislation is not normally good legislation. Given the importance of this, it should be given the respect it deserves.

After all, good Tommies died over two world wars for you and Biggles to have the chance to write your toys out of the pram posts on a football message board 70-100 years later.
Can we keep the bill as short as Ted Heath's 1972 bill then. Sorted.
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  #1115  
Old 04-11-2016, 02:52 PM
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After all, good Tommies died over two world wars for you and Biggles to have the chance to write your toys out of the pram posts and moronic memes on a football message board 70-100 years later.
Absolutely. And also died that so when an issue is put to the British people, as it was on June 23rd, then it needs to be honoured.
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  #1116  
Old 04-11-2016, 02:53 PM
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Can we keep the bill as short as Ted Heath's 1972 bill then. Sorted.
If it's given the scrutiny it deserves. Fine by me.
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  #1117  
Old 04-11-2016, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
Need to get this up in front of Parliament now as soon as possible. Might actually even backfire on the Remain side because they will be exposed for what they really are i.e people who wish to dismiss the victory on June 23rd.

And let the Lords block it. It will be the last thing they ever get to block. About time we got rid of it. And I am sure all of you soc.libs would agree with me.
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  #1118  
Old 04-11-2016, 02:55 PM
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  #1119  
Old 04-11-2016, 02:55 PM
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Are you still advocating violence?
Does throwing a biscuit at a copper count as violence?
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  #1120  
Old 04-11-2016, 02:56 PM
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If the result of June 23rd is not honoured, then yes. Very much.
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