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  #21  
Old 21-11-2018, 11:33 AM
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Adlerhorst Adlerhorst is offline
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Originally Posted by smileysmith View Post
As if bombing the **** out of and starving Yemen wasn't enough, the Saudi's are treating Indonesian's as slaves now.

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What do you mean “now”.

Indonesians have been treated like slaves in the GCC for forever
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  #22  
Old 21-11-2018, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
What do you mean “now”.

Indonesians have been treated like slaves in the GCC for forever
I wasn't aware of that. Grim.
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  #23  
Old 21-11-2018, 11:43 AM
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Tbf it isn’t just Indonesians
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  #24  
Old 21-11-2018, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
Is it morally justifiable to help our allies take on an aggressive force of rebels that has usurped the legitimate government .
They are supported by the Saud's main regional enemy/competitor resulting in a hostile state on their border. The Saud's main object is to restore the legitimate government. That's the real question not that people are being killed. They also fire rockets into Saudi remember.

Its a general tactic of rebel groups to embed themselves into the population. There is no possibility of an open battle with a winner and loser. The result being that non-combatants are also killed. It happens almost everywhere there is war. Whereas I realise that a bus load of kids being blown up is as bad as it gets you have to able have some analysis of the situation. Nothing we do will stop it happening.

If we stop arming the Saudi's someone else will but we will no longer be their ally and lose the benefit of being one. There will be a resulting loss of jobs in not just defence but in all other industries, McClusky would never allow that wittering idiot Corbyn to do it even if he could.

Who makes the weapons the Houthi use. Should they stop arming them? Lets here that from you.
No. its not, because our allies in question are themselves no better than those backing the rebels, and the 'legitimacy' of Yemen (and many middle east countries as a minefield). Our allies are no more a force for democracy or change, than the Iranians, and this is entirely about their own geo-political dominance in the middle east - which will not benefit from either country having the upper hand.

The real moral stance would be to utilise the UN directly; implementing sanctions on Iran and Syria, whilst deploying peace keeping forces whilst the UN rebuilds the country and negotiates a settlement between the actual forces involved, and the people of Yemen - that's geared towards a long term sustainable growth for a country that's been torn apart by civil conflict (often due to allied nations interests) for far to long.

Morally, that is. Realistically, we'll just back the Saudis and sell them hardware as they use it up, regardless of the fact they really don't give a s**t about the people of Yemen.
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  #25  
Old 21-11-2018, 01:25 PM
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  #26  
Old 21-11-2018, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogstar721 View Post
No. its not, because our allies in question are themselves no better than those backing the rebels, and the 'legitimacy' of Yemen (and many middle east countries as a minefield). Our allies are no more a force for democracy or change, than the Iranians, and this is entirely about their own geo-political dominance in the middle east - which will not benefit from either country having the upper hand.

The real moral stance would be to utilise the UN directly; implementing sanctions on Iran and Syria, whilst deploying peace keeping forces whilst the UN rebuilds the country and negotiates a settlement between the actual forces involved, and the people of Yemen - that's geared towards a long term sustainable growth for a country that's been torn apart by civil conflict (often due to allied nations interests) for far to long.

Morally, that is. Realistically, we'll just back the Saudis and sell them hardware as they use it up, regardless of the fact they really don't give a s**t about the people of Yemen.
tbf the Saudis are mostly launching American (Raytheon iirc) munitions, rather than ours.
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  #27  
Old 21-11-2018, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smileysmith View Post
I wasn't aware of that. Grim.
Anyone having a lovely break in that neck of the woods (it's not just Saudi) really needs to read about the widespread, near state sanctioned abuse of workers from SE Asia (and places like Ethiopia). Apologists will no doubt say it goes on everywhere, reforms are in place blah blah.
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  #28  
Old 21-11-2018, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
tbf the Saudis are mostly launching American (Raytheon iirc) munitions, rather than ours.
Ours don't work ?
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  #29  
Old 21-11-2018, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefox View Post
Ours don't work ?
Firstly they are dropping bombs mostly. We don’t really make bombs, missiles sure, bombs, not so much. Americans make bombs. Also American munitions are generally cheaper and less precise than ours.

I might be misleading you here. The U.K. airforce uses, iirc, paveway bombs, which are Raytheon who are American, but I think the U.K. arm of Raytheon. But I doubt we sell them to Saudi as surely Raytheon would sell American paveways to Saudi. Anyway who knows. Most of our export to Saudi are platform based (planes) and some missiles.
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Last edited by Adlerhorst; 21-11-2018 at 02:37 PM.
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  #30  
Old 21-11-2018, 03:23 PM
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The UK exports to Saudi will include foreign manufactured weapons for sure, but I would imagine the Paveways are UK ones bought in 2014.

If it is from a UK sourced platform, it is likely a UK sourced weapon.

This also goes for dumb bombs as well.
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  #31  
Old 21-11-2018, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
Firstly they are dropping bombs mostly. We don’t really make bombs, missiles sure, bombs, not so much. Americans make bombs. Also American munitions are generally cheaper and less precise than ours.

I might be misleading you here. The U.K. airforce uses, iirc, paveway bombs, which are Raytheon who are American, but I think the U.K. arm of Raytheon. But I doubt we sell them to Saudi as surely Raytheon would sell American paveways to Saudi. Anyway who knows. Most of our export to Saudi are platform based (planes) and some missiles.
Thanks, but
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  #32  
Old 21-11-2018, 08:35 PM
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Once again the Donald can be trusted to tell the truth; if only our remainer Foreign Office would do the same - although the remain loving Foreign Secretary agrees the Saudis share the ruling classes' standards.

As for the UAE: expect more Danegeldt from the weak nation which comes from the poor's pockets so no big deal really. After Salisbury, the UAE knows how tough the weak nation is when it negotiates on behalf of the UK's suppliers.
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  #33  
Old 27-11-2018, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickgusset View Post
Is it morally justifiable for the U.K. to sell arms to a Saudi regime that uses them to blow up bus loads of kids or does the intelligence we glean from them in the war on terror make it worthwhile?
No it doesn't
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  #34  
Old 27-11-2018, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ebyeeckeagle View Post
Anyone having a lovely break in that neck of the woods (it's not just Saudi) really needs to read about the widespread, near state sanctioned abuse of workers from SE Asia (and places like Ethiopia). Apologists will no doubt say it goes on everywhere, reforms are in place blah blah.
100 000 brits living in UAE alone. That’s a lot of support for slavery, not to mention the tax dodging involved. And that’s just the UAE.
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