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  #22001  
Old 20-02-2017, 07:05 PM
Nth Kent Eagle Nth Kent Eagle is offline
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
ONS data for 2013. Though this could be after they moved a large chunk of the ONS to Wales and it all went to shit
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Seems to do alright with transport. If you're right it makes it even more important to spread the wealth to avoid even more housing squalor and inflation. The commuter system with trains running packed one way and empty the other is madness. A lot more regional devolution and reintroducing regional development agencies would help. Little things like building a footbridge from Rochester centre to the Medway City Estate enterprise zone or a south east bypass for Maidstone are examples of local investment to be funded.
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  #22002  
Old 20-02-2017, 07:06 PM
Nth Kent Eagle Nth Kent Eagle is offline
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
There will be huge differences from FOM. Also all the negative things here you rightly list about the EU are as bad and worse in terms of the UK state, with far worse anti-trade union laws, workers rights and privatisations.
Sadly the outsourcing plague is wrecking lives of workers in far too many countries.
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  #22003  
Old 20-02-2017, 07:19 PM
Nth Kent Eagle Nth Kent Eagle is offline
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Interesting stuff from PwC although it is a very long term prediction. The EU 27 to be 9% of the world's economy in 2050 rather than the 15% now. Looks like we should be nice to Indonesia, Brazil and Mexico by the look of it. See Page 5.

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  #22004  
Old 20-02-2017, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by cdm61 View Post
Those ideas of 'racial' superiority were used a long time before Hitler came along to justify the slave trade by UK slave owners - if you wish to believe that the UK is a tolerant society then go ahead - it is not the view from those that suffered under its colonialism or its imperialism...you have a large pair of rose coloured glasses...or maybe you've forgotten the rivers of blood speech...which matches many of the sentiments of some of the leavers very loudly today To view the link you have to Register or Login
I won't bother clicking on the link. So far we have had peasants revolt, Hitler and now desperation stakes with the slave trade. Nothing at all to do with UK today or the standards of today. If you were tolerant of your own peoples you would know many people tried and succeeded in stopping the slave trade and around the world.

whataboutery
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  #22005  
Old 20-02-2017, 07:25 PM
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Will we qualify for EU aid when we leave?
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  #22006  
Old 20-02-2017, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by dim View Post
Will we qualify for EU aid when we leave?
Let's hope so. We're going to need it.
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  #22007  
Old 20-02-2017, 07:33 PM
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Wonder what happened to cause that?
Be interesting to see if that surge between July and September last year,continued at those levels in subsequent 4 or 5 months?
Hopefully not.
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  #22008  
Old 20-02-2017, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mik59 View Post
No it doesn't and yes we can: re-read the Treaties e.g. Article 3.2 on the primary objectives - The Union shall offer its citizens an area of freedom, security and justice without internal frontiers, in which the free movement of persons is ensured in conjunction with appropriate measures with respect to external border controls, asylum, immigration and the prevention and combating of crime.

Or 45.3 of the "Lisbon" Treaty which says that FoM is subject to "limitations justified on grounds of public policy, public security or public health". It also states that migrants "stay in a Member State for the purpose of employment in accordance with the provisions governing the employment of nationals of that State laid down by law, regulation or administrative action".

See also Regulation (EU) No 492/2011 on freedom of movement for workers.
You appear to have been very selective in the sections you have quoted. Missing out important subsections such as this on the restrictions of FOM.

'Such restrictive measures must be based on the personal conduct of the individual concerned, which must represent a sufficiently serious and present threat to the fundamental interests of the state'.

'Sufficiently serious and present threat' Quite a subsection.

Also, the rules state:

For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities.

You also missed out the section on jobseekers:

'The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled'.

In short the UK have to jump though hoops in every individual case and the person also has the right to appeal.

Hardly surprising that it never happens and once here they are allowed to stay regardless.

The website explaining all this is littered with case law after case law. The majority of which find in favour of the individual.

Thank you for highlighting this as reading though it simply reinforces my view that we have made the right decision to leave.
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  #22009  
Old 20-02-2017, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
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Seems to do alright with transport. If you're right it makes it even more important to spread the wealth to avoid even more housing squalor and inflation. The commuter system with trains running packed one way and empty the other is madness. A lot more regional devolution and reintroducing regional development agencies would help. Little things like building a footbridge from Rochester centre to the Medway City Estate enterprise zone or a south east bypass for Maidstone are examples of local investment to be funded.
Not commenting about brexit but what's this Maidstone bypass thing you're talking about? Is it an actual thing? Just caught my interest being reasonably local (in the sense of keeping a reasonable distance).
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  #22010  
Old 20-02-2017, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delboy01 View Post
You appear to have been very selective in the sections you have quoted. Missing out important subsections such as this on the restrictions of FOM.

'Such restrictive measures must be based on the personal conduct of the individual concerned, which must represent a sufficiently serious and present threat to the fundamental interests of the state'.

'Sufficiently serious and present threat' Quite a subsection.

Also, the rules state:

For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities.

You also missed out the section on jobseekers:

'The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled'.

In short the UK have to jump though hoops in every individual case and the person also has the right to appeal.

Hardly surprising that it never happens and once here they are allowed to stay regardless.

The website explaining all this is littered with case law after case law. The majority of which find in favour of the individual.

Thank you for highlighting this as reading though it simply reinforces my view that we have made the right decision to leave.
So you want states to have greater arbitrary powers for the forced relocation of people? What a horrible vision of the future that is.
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  #22011  
Old 20-02-2017, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FORZA SELHURST View Post
Not commenting about brexit but what's this Maidstone bypass thing you're talking about? Is it an actual thing? Just caught my interest being reasonably local (in the sense of keeping a reasonable distance).
Isn't that the M20?
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  #22012  
Old 20-02-2017, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by rhino_mik View Post
Isn't that the M20?
I suppose it is in a way. Maybe NK is talking about traffic joining the M20 from S without going through central Maidstone. Going south round Leeds is a nightmare. Coxheath/East Farleigh going north not too bad although not an option for lorries.
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  #22013  
Old 20-02-2017, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by rhino_mik View Post
So you want states to have greater arbitrary powers for the forced relocation of people? What a horrible vision of the future that is.
No not at all. I have stated repeatedly that I want the UK to have the right to chose who comes here. Not to send someone back after they are here.

I was responding to your statement that we COULD already restrict FOM.

You are reading between the lines of text and forming your own opinion as to what someone means and seeing something that is not there.
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  #22014  
Old 20-02-2017, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palacea View Post
I won't bother clicking on the link. So far we have had peasants revolt, Hitler and now desperation stakes with the slave trade. Nothing at all to do with UK today or the standards of today. If you were tolerant of your own peoples you would know many people tried and succeeded in stopping the slave trade and around the world.

whataboutery
If you think the attitudes created by the slave trade have gone you're in more denial...the crimes of British imperialism have been buried and replaced with a mythology of British fairness and the so called civilising effect of Empire....modern examples of this include Iraq and Libya which of course you will deny
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  #22015  
Old 20-02-2017, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by cdm61 View Post
If you think the attitudes created by the slave trade have gone you're in more denial...the crimes of British imperialism have been buried and replaced with a mythology of British fairness and the so called civilising effect of Empire....modern examples of this include Iraq and Libya which of course you will deny
How do you feel about the Germans?
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  #22016  
Old 20-02-2017, 08:37 PM
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Biggineagle Biggineagle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palacea View Post
I won't bother clicking on the link. So far we have had peasants revolt, Hitler and now desperation stakes with the slave trade. Nothing at all to do with UK today or the standards of today. If you were tolerant of your own peoples you would know many people tried and succeeded in stopping the slave trade and around the world.

whataboutery
Well said you, so, any religions / countries still like a bit of slave trade ?
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  #22017  
Old 20-02-2017, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Biggineagle View Post
Well said you, so, any religions / countries still like a bit of slave trade ?
Wtf?
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  #22018  
Old 20-02-2017, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delboy01 View Post
You appear to have been very selective in the sections you have quoted. Missing out important subsections such as this on the restrictions of FOM.

'Such restrictive measures must be based on the personal conduct of the individual concerned, which must represent a sufficiently serious and present threat to the fundamental interests of the state'.

'Sufficiently serious and present threat' Quite a subsection.

Also, the rules state:

For the first three months, every EU citizen has the right to reside on the territory of another EU country without any conditions or formalities.

You also missed out the section on jobseekers:

'The right to remain in the host country after stopping work is now laid down in Directive 2004/38/EC. Job seekers have the right to reside for a period exceeding six months (CoJ, Case C-292/89 Antonissen) without having to meet any conditions if they continue to seek employment in the host Member State and have a ‘genuine chance’ of finding work; during this time they cannot be expelled'.

In short the UK have to jump though hoops in every individual case and the person also has the right to appeal.

Hardly surprising that it never happens and once here they are allowed to stay regardless.

The website explaining all this is littered with case law after case law. The majority of which find in favour of the individual.

Thank you for highlighting this as reading though it simply reinforces my view that we have made the right decision to leave.
We have indeed

Smoke and mirrors.

UK to take back control
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Bliss it was that dawn to be alive.
Prepare for an immediate #Brexit !!
A Good Old Fashioned Palace Supporter since 1963

ROLL ON DEATH !!
"WE LEAVE THE EU MARCH 2019"

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/125px-Flag_of_England.svg.png
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  #22019  
Old 20-02-2017, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by fang View Post
Wtf?
Qatar, Saudi, Isis..... I am sure you could name a few more...
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Bliss it was that dawn to be alive.
Prepare for an immediate #Brexit !!
A Good Old Fashioned Palace Supporter since 1963

ROLL ON DEATH !!
"WE LEAVE THE EU MARCH 2019"

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  #22020  
Old 20-02-2017, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delboy01 View Post
No not at all. I have stated repeatedly that I want the UK to have the right to chose who comes here. Not to send someone back after they are here.

I was responding to your statement that we COULD already restrict FOM.

You are reading between the lines of text and forming your own opinion as to what someone means and seeing something that is not there.
But all those things you listed about FoM are a positive.

Ps. Not my statement, other Mik.
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