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  #7881  
Old 27-09-2016, 12:49 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
I agree; you are largely amenable, but I have no idea why ol' Heb winds you up so much.

But do me a favour - drop the private schooling insults. A child cannot help where they are educated, so to insult people on that basis could suggest that you are more concerned with class war than with the fight for fairness.
To be honest I'm just throwing out any old nonsense insults to Heb. I'm surprised anyone takes it seriously
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  #7882  
Old 27-09-2016, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
To be honest I'm just throwing out any old nonsense insults to Heb. I'm surprised anyone takes it seriously
It's utterly tedious, and sad to read. We're all Palace - should be able to debate without firing insults off all the time.
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  #7883  
Old 27-09-2016, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post
I do care. I just said I was interested in your inability to defend your poorly thought out policy positions.

And of course I appreciate that you'd rather I didn't respond, for the same reason getting you to answer a straight question was like pulling teeth (and not just from me either).

You don't really know what you're talking about, made a stupid policy position that you havent thought through, can't defend it, and now want to shut down any examination of it.

It's the cowards way out, but your right of course. No one forces you to reply to me, but I am still interested in your daft proposal so I'm hardly likely to drop it.

It's also pretty funny since one of your stock, rather odd, responses is "maggot boy". Wiggle wiggle cockneyrebel, wiggle wiggle
Just repeating yourself endlessly doesn't make things the case. You might disagree that all single parents and their children should keep a minimum standard of living. You might think instead that they should be thrown off benefits and in to misery and poverty, including the children. You agree with second the way of doing things, but that doesn't make the first way of doing things ill thought out.

The reason I don't want you to respond is that you are just so irritating. Incredibly so. Like a total and utter irritating, **** wit. It's really not because I don't want to debate the issue further. I happily responded to Matt on virtually the same point.

Last edited by cockneyrebel; 27-09-2016 at 12:56 PM.
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  #7884  
Old 27-09-2016, 12:55 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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Originally Posted by Elephant with mouse gyp View Post
The point is the people who don't want to work is a tiny proportion and even the apparently bone idle often have issues the passer by can't see.

Might come as a shock, but there was life before neoliberalism - a few decades ago when you signed on, it was a no questions asked format, or the one legendary "have you worked in the last two weeks" query. There were undoubtedly people who abused the system, but unemployment was low.

When the Tories deliberately sent unemployment up in the 80s their cover was to demonise claimants, get on yer bike etc., with special attention for single mothers. New Labour carried on the pathetic blame the victim game.

Similar in a way, the evidence from Basic Income experiments is that paying people a no strings income encourages them to find work or work more hours.
As usual a very good post which exposes the right wing Guardinistas for what they really are.
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  #7885  
Old 27-09-2016, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by se1eagle View Post
It's utterly tedious, and sad to read. We're all Palace - should be able to debate without firing insults off all the time.
I know. I blame Heb
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  #7886  
Old 27-09-2016, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Heb 7:4 View Post

but I am still interested in your daft proposal
I wouldn't call it a daft proposal.Of course it is likely to have flaws,as you mention,but surely those flaws are negligible when comparing it to the current situation of increased child poverty and suicide?
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  #7887  
Old 27-09-2016, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by radiomike View Post
.................................................. .................................wage leaves many firmly barely surviving
rent controls are a necessity to stop the obscene profiteering of landlords and treatment of tenants.let us concentrate on the positives of corbyn's labour
I'm bewildered by the left's obsession with failed policies of the past.

Whereas I agree the situation created by BTL's has become obscene, rent controls won't help anyone buy their own place which is what the majority of people want to do. My preferred solution is to bring privately rented accommodation into line with council and housing association property and make it subject to the right to buy at a discount.

Now that would make Labour electable.
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  #7888  
Old 27-09-2016, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
I'm bewildered by the left's obsession with failed policies of the past.

Whereas I agree the situation created by BTL's has become obscene, rent controls won't help anyone buy their own place which is what the majority of people want to do. My preferred solution is to bring privately rented accommodation into line with council and housing association property and make it subject to the right to buy at a discount.

Now that would make Labour electable.
I've often wondered why RTB should be extended to the private rental sector. In fact that would be far more ethical, and take social housing out of RTB.
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  #7889  
Old 27-09-2016, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Skintagain View Post
My preferred solution is to bring privately rented accommodation into line with council and housing association property and make it subject to the right to buy at a discount.

Now that would make Labour electable.
Ouch!

But no bad idea that. Certainly it used to be the case that controlled tenancies could be passed on at death. Not quite the same thing, but similar in that it recognised that a tenant is more than just someone who hands over wads of cash.
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  #7890  
Old 27-09-2016, 01:21 PM
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Corbyn proposed it last year, not sure where it stands now.

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  #7891  
Old 27-09-2016, 01:34 PM
Skintagain Skintagain is offline
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Corbyn proposed it last year, not sure where it stands now.

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Hadn't seen that before, it doesn't need the subsidies which are mentioned as there would be money from the banks as the BTL's would no longer need to borrow. It may be a policy which would regain the working class vote for them.

I wonder if we'll hear of it again.
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  #7892  
Old 27-09-2016, 01:40 PM
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I thought this was a very interesting (albeit long!) article about the left's problems across Europe:-

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  #7893  
Old 27-09-2016, 01:41 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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My sister just gave me the reality of Tory Britain. My niece is looking for a SEN school

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Just went to see the school and it was so depressing. So under resourced, a portacabin with all the therapeutic support funding gone so it's just teaching now in a really grim environment.
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  #7894  
Old 27-09-2016, 01:48 PM
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My sister just gave me the reality of Tory Britain. My niece is looking for a SEN school
I think you will find that is the end product of having a 20 year labour government and the lack of investment coupled with an open doors immigration policy to try to keep the red vote.
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  #7895  
Old 27-09-2016, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
You might disagree that all single parents and their children should keep a minimum standard of living. You might think instead that they should be thrown off benefits and in to misery and poverty, including the children. You agree with second the way of doing things, but that doesn't make the first way of doing things ill thought out.
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  #7896  
Old 27-09-2016, 01:55 PM
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That's way off, Reading. Albeit they did it via PFI, but you have to give New Labour credit for rebuilding thousands of schools left in a terrible state by the Tories.
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  #7897  
Old 27-09-2016, 02:01 PM
cockneyrebel cockneyrebel is offline
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Originally Posted by READING EAGLE View Post
I think you will find that is the end product of having a 20 year labour government and the lack of investment coupled with an open doors immigration policy to try to keep the red vote.
You couldn't be more wrong. Immigration has helped the economy massively.

That aside the funding has been cut by a Tory government as they give tax breaks to the rich.

What has caused this is ever widening inequality with the super rich going off the scale. Blaming immigration is a mugs game.
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  #7898  
Old 27-09-2016, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Elephant with mouse gyp View Post
That's way off, Reading. Albeit they did it via PFI, but you have to give New Labour credit for rebuilding thousands of schools left in a terrible state by the Tories.
Schools and hospitals were so grim by the time Thatcher and Major had finished. Unfortunately we are hurtling back to that place now.
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  #7899  
Old 27-09-2016, 02:02 PM
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I think you will find that is the end product of having a 20 year labour government and the lack of investment coupled with an open doors immigration policy to try to keep the red vote.
You sir are a silly sausage. I'm not even going to try to unpick all the untruths in that one sentence.
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  #7900  
Old 27-09-2016, 02:03 PM
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I wouldn't call it a daft proposal.Of course it is likely to have flaws,as you mention,but surely those flaws are negligible when comparing it to the current situation of increased child poverty and suicide?
New Labour, whose policy I was discussing, cut child poverty massively. The major plank of this was changing the point at which single parents were asked to start looking for work from their youngest being 14, to 4.

New Labour coupled this with Tax Credits, so that parents working 16 hours a week were better off than they had been on income support. It wasn't perfect (there is a moral issue over whether the state should be subsidising Tescos, and there was a terrible poverty trap in which it was a financial disincentive for single parents to work 17-34 hours) but on the single measure of child poverty it was effective.

I've not seen any studies on the number of single parents this change drove to suicide. Do you have any, specifically from new Labour years?
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