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  #7921  
Old 27-09-2016, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
The banks have to be forced to help with the mortgage relief after we bailed them out.
Hmmm.

Only a few banks were bailed out. Even if they could be 'forced' to do anything, the others could not. This is Fantasy Financial planning.
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  #7922  
Old 27-09-2016, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Hmmm.

Only a few banks were bailed out. Even if they could be 'forced' to do anything, the others could not. This is Fantasy Financial planning.
So absolutely nothing can be done by the banks to support mortgage relief? That's some down beat attitude.
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  #7923  
Old 27-09-2016, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
So absolutely nothing can be done by the banks to support mortgage relief? That's some down beat attitude.
It's more a question of why should they; banks have shareholders, and the common man is of course one of them.

I'm not so sure why ethically they should be made to pay for the cost of government policies. And of course - given the scale of negative equity we would be talking about - I'm not so sure they'd be able to afford to.
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  #7924  
Old 27-09-2016, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Not at all. I think mortgage relief would be part of the policy if there is negative equity, and a sell to the state and become council tenants option. The banks have to be forced to help with the mortgage relief after we bailed them out.
Carry on the Mail headline this morning about sums you up.....

As an aside the last 48 hours have not been the best for Labour any thought that its sorting anything after the election of Corbyn were ditched in the in fighting on policy, the NEC , anti-semitism, McDonnell (decent speech that then a disaster on newsnight, ... I could go on. Shami and Abbott on the Daily Politics show this lunchtime....
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  #7925  
Old 27-09-2016, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
It's more a question of why should they; banks have shareholders, and the common man is of course one of them.

I'm not so sure why ethically they should be made to pay for the cost of government policies. And of course - given the scale of negative equity we would be talking about - I'm not so sure they'd be able to afford to.
Shareholders are parasites in CR's world.
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  #7926  
Old 27-09-2016, 06:28 PM
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Definitely need to move beyond the shareholder economy, even from a capitalist perspective. There is often a clash between the coupon clippers and the middle-senior management who actually do the management graft and who have a greater interest in the long term health of the concern, instead of the focus on short term share price rises that is one of the causes of the lack of productive investment, a particular problem in the UK, which is more dominated than most by finance. The business press raises the issue regularly, but their solutions usually amount to lame calls for everyone to behave better.

The left solution is workers co-ops. McDonnell yesterday pledged to double the size of the workers co-op sector, which sounds good and is a start, but is a pretty measly proposal given its small size. Disappointed to be honest.
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  #7927  
Old 27-09-2016, 06:29 PM
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Shareholders are parasites in CR's world.
Yawn. I'm talking about banks who make billions. Some of which got bailed out using hundreds of billions of taxpayers money. God forbid they help with mortgage relief.
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  #7928  
Old 27-09-2016, 06:34 PM
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Carry on the Mail headline this morning about sums you up.....

As an aside the last 48 hours have not been the best for Labour any thought that its sorting anything after the election of Corbyn were ditched in the in fighting on policy, the NEC , anti-semitism, McDonnell (decent speech that then a disaster on newsnight, ... I could go on. Shami and Abbott on the Daily Politics show this lunchtime....
Oh you will go on......

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  #7929  
Old 27-09-2016, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by cockneyrebel View Post
Yawn. I'm talking about banks who make billions. Some of which got bailed out using hundreds of billions of taxpayers money. God forbid they help with mortgage relief.
Quote:
This looks like there has been an additional cost to the taxpayer of about £17bn, which for some reason has not been covered in government-commissioned Rothschild report.

Of course, if we include that loss of £17bn in the final balance sheet, it more than cancels out the £14bn surplus ministers are keen to talk about, and means the taxpayer has suffered a net loss overall.
So a net cost to the taxpayer of around £3bn.

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  #7930  
Old 27-09-2016, 06:55 PM
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The government has been quite keen to use the banks as a piggy bank to increase consumer spending. For example £30 odd billion PPI.
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  #7931  
Old 27-09-2016, 07:39 PM
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The banks have a multi billion pound subsidy by way of the understanding they'll be saved. Can't remember the exact figure, but it's one from the Bank of England itself. On top of that, property prices have been kept high by government market manipulation and it is on that property that banks' solvency rests. Someone else is paying for all that.
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  #7932  
Old 27-09-2016, 07:42 PM
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Hmmm.

Remind me, were Barclays 'saved' by the British taxpayer?

Or are we in danger of treating the banks like commies - they're all the same?
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  #7933  
Old 27-09-2016, 08:41 PM
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All banks are different, but for the bit I'm on about, they're the same. All the big banks get what they call an implicit subsidy. They are too big too fail, so, knowing the state will bail them out, can lend at lower rates and claim higher profits than a free market situation would imply.

As it's implicit, the precise amount of the subsidy is a bit slippery and changes year to year depending on the wider economic climate. At the time of the credit crunch and after, these subsidies to UK banks are thought to have amounted to between £100-£200bn.

The staggering amounts involved even caused the Bank of England's own expert on the issue - Andy Haldane - to question whether banks added any value to the economy at all. I couldn't believe it when he came out with his findings, like the Pope saying this faith in Jesus stuff is a con. British politicians mostly ignored it in public.

Long piece on the history of it:
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  #7934  
Old 27-09-2016, 08:45 PM
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Labour in the late 70s was a cutting government. Callaghan and Healy had converted to neoliberalism aka monetarism by then and the subsequent cuts were what lay behind many of the strikes.

The IMF thing is an interesting one. It turned out later that the Treasury got its sums wrong by accident or design and the loan hadn't been necessary. There is also the theory, which I back, that Healy knew the sums were wrong, was party to the lie, but wanted to use the IMF to discipline the left and unions.
The Canary?
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  #7935  
Old 27-09-2016, 08:50 PM
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Thanks. That is an interesting, and surprisingly accessible, read.
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  #7936  
Old 27-09-2016, 08:51 PM
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Not at all. I think mortgage relief would be part of the policy if there is negative equity, and a sell to the state and become council tenants option. The banks have to be forced to help with the mortgage relief after we bailed them out.
Prices won't crash, there is a shortage, supply and demand etc. They may steady for a while that's all. There won't be a -ve equity issue. Corbyn suggestion of 35% discount is prolly unrealistic. I think the fact that people could buy would make BTL less desirable, discounts would only need to be small.

Mortgage subsidies only help in the short term as they will push prices up and make it worse for everybody.

PS the more I think about this the more I like it, its only a question of getting the balance right.

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  #7937  
Old 27-09-2016, 09:07 PM
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The Canary?
The book Austerity ' by the Canary's editor Kerry-anne Mendoza is a well researched and annotated tome that includes a lot about banking practices that raises a few eyebrows.
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  #7938  
Old 27-09-2016, 10:02 PM
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Some very interesting reading on here this evening regarding banks and social benefits. i just can't help chuckling to myself about how oblivious the communists within Labour on here are to the fact that they've won nothing other than a massive unelectable talking shop. They just keep on as if they are seriously ever going to have any chance to see any of their dreams become reality but then the rest of you do encourage them don't you, have you nothing better to do, probably not.
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  #7939  
Old 27-09-2016, 10:27 PM
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Some very interesting reading on here this evening regarding banks and social benefits. i just can't help chuckling to myself about how oblivious the communists within Labour on here are to the fact that they've won nothing other than a massive unelectable talking shop. They just keep on as if they are seriously ever going to have any chance to see any of their dreams become reality but then the rest of you do encourage them don't you, have you nothing better to do, probably not.
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  #7940  
Old 28-09-2016, 11:18 AM
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Its like June 23rd never happened in Labour world.

And they want to reconnect with the working classes?
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