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  #2901  
Old 17-11-2017, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by JackTheBiscuit View Post
Jobs at Everton, Watford, Swansea, Palace (twice), West Ham, Southampton and Leicester (twice) have been up for grabs since Pardew was sacked yet he remains out of work. Then there are many high profile championship jobs at Wolves, Leeds, Norwich, Boro, Derby, Forest, Hull, Birmingham

I wonder why.
Exactly. The fraud has been found out.
  #2902  
Old 17-11-2017, 11:25 AM
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Please tell me there;s substance to this. Would laugh my bollocks off.

Me too, but also I think it would be a genuinely good fit for them.
  #2903  
Old 17-11-2017, 12:04 PM
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Sam had one transfer window and addressed some key weaknesses left by Pardew. He had big plans to strengthen the squad in the summer and would have done so if he had of stayed. I doubt we'd be in the mess we're in if he had of stayed - there's no way we would have signed three defenders out of four signings.

Pardew had several transfer windows but left a very unbalanced squad. My bigger criticism of Pardew is how unfit the players were under him. And how tactically inept he was. You may have forgotten the 2016 calendar year under Pardew. It was horrendous. The worst team form wise in all four divisions. That tells you all you need to know.
Other than Sakho(and that's a big exception to leave out as he has been fantastic and the reason we stayed up last season) Allardyce didn't address any of our weaknesses.Under Pardew we were either playing Ward or Kelly at left back because we didn't have a left back with Souare's injury.Now we are playing either Ward or Fosu Mensah at left back because we don't have a good enough left back with Souare's injury.Couple that with deciding not to play(granted we don't know the circumstances)our best goalkeeper,leading him to be sold in the summer with no replacement(the no replacement is not Allardyce's fault)and we're in just as poor situation as we were before,with the exception of having some choices at centre back.

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I think this is a classic case of a post that *****il the last statement) is all true as far as it goes, but manages to miss the main point. The reality is, we were absolutely nailed on to go down had Pardew stayed. He'd completely lost the plot, and worse still, his tactical decisions suggested that he had no concept of the position we were in. Chasing a winner against Man United (with entirely predicable results) rather than setting up to hold onto the point was a great example of this.

Yes he did a great job in his first year, but he had clearly lost the plot. That things would have continued to get worse had he stayed is as close to a certainty as you'll ever get in football, and if anything his sacking was overdue. And I don't think the argument that he could have improved things with signings in January holds much water when you look at his transfer record for us.

So Allardyce took over a squad in freefall, with a couple of gaping holes in the squad, and an overall prognosis that was actually in a far worse situation than the already poor league position suggested. And he turned that round. Yes, he had money to spend, and he certainly overpaid for the left backs (but when you go into January with your only left back out for the season, what do you think selling clubs are going to do?), but he eventually got us functioning as an effective unit and got us out of trouble.

So it was very much a case of Pardew's mismanagement was the problem last season, and Allardyce was the solution to that. Given that reality, it's unsurprising that people see things the way they do, even if that's perhaps harsh on Pardew given his own achievements earlier in his tenure.
I agree with this.What I don't accept is people suggesting Pardew is a clown which is clearly nonsense when given what he achieved with us and Newcastle.It may have gone wrong for him last season and probably even further back than that,and his sacking may have been a reasonable decision,but he was by no means clueless and did not do a poor job for us overall.On top of that,he managed to persuade the likes of Cabaye,Benteke and Mandanda to sign for us,as well as play Zaha as a regular first team starter for the first time since he left us(he was on the bench a lot under Warnock).These are things that I'm grateful for now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackTheBiscuit View Post
Jobs at Everton, Watford, Swansea, Palace (twice), West Ham, Southampton and Leicester (twice) have been up for grabs since Pardew was sacked yet he remains out of work. Then there are many high profile championship jobs at Wolves, Leeds, Norwich, Boro, Derby, Forest, Hull, Birmingham

I wonder why.
A number of those clubs have hired better managers than Pardew.We've also had several opportunities to do the same and haven't taken them.
  #2904  
Old 17-11-2017, 12:23 PM
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Pardew was taking us down allardyce saved us - its that simple. Our team was knackered after 60mins under pardew
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  #2905  
Old 17-11-2017, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by meee View Post
Other than Sakho(and that's a big exception to leave out as he has been fantastic and the reason we stayed up last season) Allardyce didn't address any of our weaknesses.Under Pardew we were either playing Ward or Kelly at left back because we didn't have a left back with Souare's injury.Now we are playing either Ward or Fosu Mensah at left back because we don't have a good enough left back with Souare's injury.Couple that with deciding not to play(granted we don't know the circumstances)our best goalkeeper,leading him to be sold in the summer with no replacement(the no replacement is not Allardyce's fault)and we're in just as poor situation as we were before,with the exception of having some choices at centre back.



I agree with this.What I don't accept is people suggesting Pardew is a clown which is clearly nonsense when given what he achieved with us and Newcastle.It may have gone wrong for him last season and probably even further back than that,and his sacking may have been a reasonable decision,but he was by no means clueless and did not do a poor job for us overall.On top of that,he managed to persuade the likes of Cabaye,Benteke and Mandanda to sign for us,as well as play Zaha as a regular first team starter for the first time since he left us(he was on the bench a lot under Warnock).These are things that I'm grateful for now.



A number of those clubs have hired better managers than Pardew.We've also had several opportunities to do the same and haven't taken them.
Er, what about defensive midfield and the signing of Luka? He was fundamental in keeping us up. Our midfield was awfully imbalanced without a defensively mined player in there. Luka helped shore things up.

Sam also signed Sakho. I don't see why people fail to see this.

Schlupp and PvA both played a big part in helping keep us up as Kelly was getting destroyed every week. But admittedly it's disappointing that both haven't played better this season. PvA is an odd one as only seems to play well under Sam.

Beyond that, you can't expect Sam in one transfer window - especially the difficult January window - to sort out all the mess Pardew left. Four signings in January was a good return. I'm sure if he had of stayed this summer he would have signed strikers and a keeper.

And, finally as for Pardew, if he was such a good manager how do you explain our horrendous form in 2016? The worst of all the 92 league clubs. That takes some doing.
  #2906  
Old 17-11-2017, 12:32 PM
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A number of those clubs have hired better managers than Pardew.We've also had several opportunities to do the same and haven't taken them.
So you are saying Moyes, Shakespeare, Puel, Monk, Clement, Slutsky, Christianson, Farke are better managers than Pardew.

Wow... he's worse than I thought.
  #2907  
Old 17-11-2017, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Palace View Post
Exactly. The fraud has been found out.
A fraud? Football is full of managers with worse/comparable records to him
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  #2908  
Old 17-11-2017, 01:57 PM
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A fraud? Football is full of managers with worse/comparable records to him
No one I can think of with as inflated an opinion of his own qualities. The shit he talks on Sky is embarrassing.
  #2909  
Old 17-11-2017, 02:08 PM
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No one I can think of with as inflated an opinion of his own qualities. The shit he talks on Sky is embarrassing.
Gary Neville on the other hand is a very good on the TV (apparently)

  #2910  
Old 17-11-2017, 02:14 PM
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And, finally as for Pardew, if he was such a good manager how do you explain our horrendous form in 2016? The worst of all the 92 league clubs. That takes some doing.
Everyone has bad runs.He is an average to good manager and had a number of injuries to key players to contend with.Allardyce had similar problems in the spells when that occurred under him.It's no surprise we went through a difficult spell.Pardew also had a bad spell at Southampton but did very well with Newcastle.Neither of those make him a poor manager or a great manager.

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Originally Posted by JackTheBiscuit View Post
So you are saying Moyes, Shakespeare, Puel, Monk, Clement, Slutsky, Christianson, Farke are better managers than Pardew.

Wow... he's worse than I thought.
The ones in bold definitely.Time will tell with Monk,Clement and Farke.There were also clubs like Watford on there who hired Silva or Southampton who hired Pellegrino.I rate both higher than Pardew.
  #2911  
Old 17-11-2017, 02:18 PM
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Biggest negative thing Pardew did (and got Parish to go along with it) was the deconstruction of our wage structure - we would be such a better position that after Parish stuck to his principles with Pulis that he continued to stick to them, not mess it up with Cabeye (who yes is a great player) and then benteke etc we would have had the money to replace Hennessy, and plug the gaps in other areas - now we are very close to doing a Bolton/charlton etc and wasting our time in the premiership
  #2912  
Old 17-11-2017, 03:00 PM
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Gary Neville on the other hand is a very good on the TV (apparently)

At least Neville was a top player - the best right back England have had in 20-30 years imo. Pardew was a poor player as well as a crap manager.
  #2913  
Old 17-11-2017, 03:02 PM
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Biggest negative thing Pardew did (and got Parish to go along with it) was the deconstruction of our wage structure - we would be such a better position that after Parish stuck to his principles with Pulis that he continued to stick to them, not mess it up with Cabeye (who yes is a great player) and then benteke etc we would have had the money to replace Hennessy, and plug the gaps in other areas - now we are very close to doing a Bolton/charlton etc and wasting our time in the premiership
Spot on. That awful Pardew quote when he flippantly said in public that anyone wanting to be paid near to Cabaye's level would get short shrift was cringeworthy. Hardly great for team morale. Especially when we had players like Wilf and Bolasie who were outperforming Cabaye.
  #2914  
Old 27-11-2017, 04:06 PM
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Being reported by Sky that Everton have reopened discussions with him.

Personally, I still feel the same about this when the job first came up. Sam's last big job was at Newcastle where he was unfairly sacked, and Everton are easily the biggest, realistic club job he could be offered at this stage. I can't begrudge him taking it (if he does). If he'd gone to West Brom or Leicester, that would have been a different matter.
  #2915  
Old 27-11-2017, 04:33 PM
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Everton are currently a shambles but any manager half as good as allardyce would keep them up with their squad they aren't a real rival for us for relgation
West ham are a different matter and have an alienated fanbase as well
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Old 27-11-2017, 04:49 PM
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Old 27-11-2017, 05:12 PM
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No one I can think of with as inflated an opinion of his own qualities. The shit he talks on Sky is embarrassing.
The guy is a complete narcissist for sure. It's always about him. Having said that, he is a good very effective manager, that can't really be denied. I put his self obsessed nonsense to one side when he was our boss (biased I know) and was fully behind him.
I honestly thing that Roy is just as an effective manager and is about 100 times the person Sam is, about 500 times the person pardew is, and million times a better person than pulls. Let them three go On managerial merry go round, in Roy we trust.
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Old 27-11-2017, 05:13 PM
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For all the reasons already mentioned (close to home, Big club etc) Id not have a problem with sam going there.

Id much rather him go to Everton than West Brom, Swansea, Newcastle etc who Id see as more likely being in the mix at the end of the season. That being said everton look awful but they do have quality players and Im sure a big budget in January if they need it. Most competent managers could save them, the others might need sam.

I think him going to Everton would avoid those clubs more vulnerable tempting him back and give us a 2million bounty
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Old 27-11-2017, 05:17 PM
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Being reported by Sky that Everton have reopened discussions with him.

Personally, I still feel the same about this when the job first came up. Sam's last big job was at Newcastle where he was unfairly sacked, and Everton are easily the biggest, realistic club job he could be offered at this stage. I can't begrudge him taking it (if he does). If he'd gone to West Brom or Leicester, that would have been a different matter.
Everton would be his biggest club job so wouldnt begrudge him that either, baggies slightly different as he was born up the road.
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  #2920  
Old 27-11-2017, 05:22 PM
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Looks like Everton have made a right hash of it all. I can't believe nobody's enquired about Hughton's availability.
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