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  #9801  
Old 07-10-2016, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by tasty_snacks View Post
As is your wont. And I encourage it. But I do wish you would propose some solutions to your perceived ills. IIRC, the only solution was a post I made, from God knows how many hundreds of pages ago, where (again) I agreed with your basic tenet and suggested a reform of land tax.

You've no need to observe some higher etiquette with regard to criticising posts. I would prefer to call it debating, and I would much rather have one with you - someone who has tenaciously banged their drum - than with the class of people who inhabit this thread solely to cause opprobrium. In fact, it would add validity to your claims. Maybe you're right after all....

Vis a vis the 2008 crash, many people suffered, me included. Ironically, many if not most of those would have been working in London.
The crash in London was tempory. House and share prices rocketed soon afterward and have continued. London has boomed because of it. Other areas have paid a heavier price with no post crash benefits.
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  #9802  
Old 07-10-2016, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
Julie behind the counter of xxx bank won't get bailed out. Still if the senior bankers do decide to move after Brexit they won't like Ireland or America because they actually jail them there.
Banks have counters these days?
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  #9803  
Old 07-10-2016, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by racehorse-80s View Post
Outside London most voted out both in poor and wealthy areas , So it wasn't all about class and wealth , Implying those who voted out are intolerant is just a plan untruth based on no factual proof , The democratic vote returned a brexit win ,You now need to let democracy take place and stop demonising those who disagreed with your vote .
Weltklasse got there first, but to reiterate, it's what many who voted Remain feel. I did state of course that it was the opinion of those that value a 'tolerant and open society' believe. I could have just as easily written that those who believe that the UK is a latent powerhouse whose EU encumbrance, once shaken off, will soar to great and powerful international heights. Anyone firmly believing this will rightly believe that those who voted Remain are rejecting logic, rationale etc...

It's a matter of perspective. But the demographics aren't. That is my point.

I do feel however that the weight of evidence is on the side of the Remainers (although I appreciate that this is slightly unfair on Leavers - you have no evidence to suggest what things may be like because we have never not been part of the EU in contemporary history). And recent shenanigans in the Government also serve to illustrate not only how damned difficult it is to unwind ourselves from the EU, but how little the ministers appointed to the task understand the mechanics.
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  #9804  
Old 07-10-2016, 11:14 PM
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Banks have counters these days?
They do at Bluewater. I even use the branch occasionally but probably because it's next to the coffee shop and Jasminder has a nice smile.
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  #9805  
Old 07-10-2016, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
The crash in London was tempory. House and share prices rocketed soon afterward and have continued. London has boomed because of it. Other areas have paid a heavier price with no post crash benefits.
That's bollocks. House price rises adversely impact London. They increase rents and thus prevent the necessary openness that London thrives on. Only people that don't live in London think that house price rises are good for Londoners.

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Are you suggesting Londons 'poor' (some of the poorest in the country you add ) are better informed on the economic and social benefits of EU membership.
Not just London, but other urban regions. And I'm not suggesting it. I'm affirming it.

Last edited by tasty_snacks; 07-10-2016 at 11:28 PM.
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  #9806  
Old 07-10-2016, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by tasty_snacks View Post
That's bollocks. House price rises adversely impact London. They increase rents and thus prevent the necessary openness that London thrives on. Only people that don't live in London think that house price rises are good for Londoners.
It can be a pain out here though. We've had cases of the City bonus brigade remortgaging their London homes or spending their annual lump sums buying up houses in terraces in Kent to rent as BTL. TBF some could also be City workers living out here.
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  #9807  
Old 07-10-2016, 11:33 PM
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We can agree that massive increases in house prices is not good on a macroeconomic level, but locally, London has seen it's wealth increase hugely. If you weren't in on the pre and post crash party, tough.A lot are though.

As for Londons working classes being more intelligent. I've been on the terraces enough at Palace to know this is bollox.
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  #9808  
Old 07-10-2016, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
It can be a pain out here though. We've had cases of the City bonus brigade remortgaging their London homes or spending their annual lump sums buying up houses in terraces in Kent to rent as BTL. TBF some could also be City workers living out here.
And I agree that this is poor practice. Blame Thatcher for making home ownership the be all and end all and destroying social housing. And blame the current government for extending the right to buy such that there will be no ******* social housing left in 20 years.

But none of this has a jot to do with Brexit. And none of this has anything to do with the EU.

Actually, I lie. Because the EIB (Eurpoean Investment Bank) was investing hundreds of millions into the UK social housing sector, and then of course June 23rd rolled around and they froze all projects.

What you have described in discontent. And you de facto suggest that people are expressing this discontent by voting to leave. Surely you can see how this supports my earlier post about logic and rationale????
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  #9809  
Old 07-10-2016, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Golf Boy View Post
We can agree that massive increases in house prices is not good on a macroeconomic level, but locally, London has seen it's wealth increase hugely. If you weren't in on the pre and post crash party, tough.A lot are though.

As for Londons working classes being more intelligent. I've been on the terraces enough at Palace to know this is bollox.
Who said anything about intelligence? You asked whether they were more informed.

The London high prices do not help London. In fact, they entrench ownership when really, dynamism is what is required.

Last edited by tasty_snacks; 07-10-2016 at 11:39 PM.
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  #9810  
Old 07-10-2016, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by tasty_snacks View Post
Who said anything about intelligence? You asked whether they were more informed.
Informed as in they've been told they're better off more times, or that they've got the gumption to realise it, whereas those outside the m25 haven't?
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  #9811  
Old 07-10-2016, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by tasty_snacks View Post
Who said anything about intelligence? You asked whether they were more informed.

The London high prices do not help London. In fact, they entrench ownership when really, dynamism is what is required.
I agree with house price bit, on a macro level.
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  #9812  
Old 07-10-2016, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by tasty_snacks View Post
And I agree that this is poor practice. Blame Thatcher for making home ownership the be all and end all and destroying social housing. And blame the current government for extending the right to buy such that there will be no ******* social housing left in 20 years.

But none of this has a jot to do with Brexit. And none of this has anything to do with the EU.

Actually, I lie. Because the EIB (Eurpoean Investment Bank) was investing hundreds of millions into the UK social housing sector, and then of course June 23rd rolled around and they froze all projects.

What you have described in discontent. And you de facto suggest that people are expressing this discontent by voting to leave. Surely you can see how this supports my earlier post about logic and rationale????
I do agree that a lot of the vote for Brexit was discontent yes. However, you could also argue that people in the poorer regions of the UK weren't persuaded that the EU benefitted them. That is something that the city, politicos and big business need to consider and should be making renewed proposals to justify a rerun. I think it is no coincidence that the two best funded regions on the mainland were the two that voted to remain. It is a hard sell to tell people in for example the 9 of the ten poorest regions of Northern Europe that money should go to Brussels rather than their area. On a separate note I do believe in home ownership for working class people. If you do a physical labouring job you want to be able to retire at some stage mortgage free not paying 1100 a month for a terrace in Dartford out of your meagre pension. I hear a lot about Thatcher and housing but she was turfed out 26 years ago.
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  #9813  
Old 07-10-2016, 11:52 PM
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Informed as in they've been told they're better off more times, or that they've got the gumption to realise it, whereas those outside the m25 haven't?
You nipped in there before my edit you cheeky monkey.

Informed as in they live in, and directly benefit from, the advantages of a proper multi cultural society. Cities have for eons been the destination of the displaced, the curious and the dreamers from around the world. And London more so than most. They have had time and the benefit of experience to assess the benefits of immigration (Theresa May informs me that this is what the vote was all about??), and they have decreed that it is good.
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  #9814  
Old 08-10-2016, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by tasty_snacks View Post
You nipped in there before my edit you cheeky monkey.

Informed as in they live in, and directly benefit from, the advantages of a proper multi cultural society. Cities have for eons been the destination of the displaced, the curious and the dreamers from around the world. And London more so than most. They have had time and the benefit of experience to assess the benefits of immigration (Theresa May informs me that this is what the vote was all about??), and they have decreed that it is good.
Or maybe they are all bright young things working in London tax planning firms and EU free trade enables them to advise their clients how to take advantage of the opportunities Holland, Ireland and Luxembourg offer.
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  #9815  
Old 08-10-2016, 12:04 AM
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Or maybe they are all bright young things working in London tax planning firms and EU free trade enables them to advise their clients how to take advantage of the opportunities Holland, Ireland and Luxembourg offer.
EDITED as above.

But you're right, London does not belong to the UK, it belongs to the world. When I was working in the City, as someone who was born and raised in London, hell even the UK, I was in a minority. Glorious.

Last edited by tasty_snacks; 08-10-2016 at 12:07 AM.
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  #9816  
Old 08-10-2016, 12:10 AM
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Julie behind the counter of xxx bank won't get bailed out. Still if the senior bankers do decide to move after Brexit they won't like Ireland or America because they actually jail them there.
do you realise if they hadn't of bailed the banks out even more people would have suffered?
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  #9817  
Old 08-10-2016, 06:46 AM
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Interesting debates over the last couple of pages chaps and hardly a smilie in site.
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Old 08-10-2016, 06:58 AM
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You couldn't help yourself, could you?
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  #9819  
Old 08-10-2016, 06:59 AM
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You couldn't help yourself, could you?
Guilty.
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  #9820  
Old 08-10-2016, 08:30 AM
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You're a prodigious poster on this thread. And I would wager that 65% of your posts refer to the London class.

Am I alone in finding this irksomely repetitive?

You're not incorrect in observing that London has benefitted from globalisation (hence why it voted to Remain). But you are way off piste in assuming that the 'London middle classes' are detached. London contains some of the poorest wards in the country, and they voted overwhelmingly to remain. Your overview is way too simplistic - perhaps you are assuming that by virtue of living inside the M25, everyone is inherently wealthy and/or middle class homeowners?

The sneering, as you put it, is therefore not directed at people with less money or advantage. Again, far too simplistic. It is directed at people who blithely fail to recognise the impossibilities and enormous consequences of leaving the EU, and against those who refuse to acknowledge that actually, the UK really is a much better place than in (insert rose tinted year in the past here). London attracts people from all over the UK and the world. With regard to the former, it is mainly those who are degree educated working in cerebral sectors of the economy. These people are taught by virtue of their education to be objective and analytical. They are taught to weigh balances. It is no wonder that they in majority, voted Remain. This is not sneering, this is fact; degree educated Brits voted overwhelmingly to Remain. London - and all those who acknowledge the benefits of an open and tolerant society - have every right to question the actions of peers that ignore fact, pragmatism, rationale and logic.

London is not in a bubble my friend. Quite the opposite. It is a proudly global city connected to a raucous and diverse global world. It is those that do not understand the virtues of this, which To view the link you have to Register or Login, who live in an impenetrable bubble.

Great post.
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