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  #10101  
Old 11-10-2016, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by racehorse-80s View Post
I voted Labour and they lost and now the Tories get to call the shots and millions of remainers who voted Tory are whinging about their hard brexit plans , WOW and I was told if Labour won by these same folks it would mean economic disaster , Ha fecking ha to you knobs who fell for that rubbish and enabled a severely right-wing UK Tory party to gain power .
You mugs reaped what you sowed big-time .
Always someone else's fault.
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  #10102  
Old 11-10-2016, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Elephant with mouse gyp View Post
Even if 90% of the Leave vote was anti immigration and therefore an end to free movement, that other 10% of Leavers added to the Remainers would mean a majority in favour of free movement.

Only if the UK accepts free movement can it hope to get compromise on other issues and be able to limit the economic damage.

It's all to play for, despite the Tories' attempts to limit debate within the hard Brexit anti immigration UKIP camp.
Much more than that because we're being swamped with Brexidiots now telling us 'it was about much more than immigration'........although none of them can tell us what.
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  #10103  
Old 11-10-2016, 11:29 AM
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Who's that on the left?
Peter Shore.
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  #10104  
Old 11-10-2016, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racehorse-80s View Post
I voted Labour and they lost and now the Tories get to call the shots and millions of remainers who voted Tory are whinging about their hard brexit plans , WOW and I was told if Labour won by these same folks it would mean economic disaster , Ha fecking ha to you knobs who fell for that rubbish and enabled a severely right-wing UK Tory party to gain power .
You mugs reaped what you sowed big-time .
Are you ******* retarded? You STILL don't understand the power your leave vote handed to the right wing do you?
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  #10105  
Old 11-10-2016, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by racehorse-80s View Post
I voted Labour and they lost and now the Tories get to call the shots and millions of remainers who voted Tory are whinging about their hard brexit plans , WOW and I was told if Labour won by these same folks it would mean economic disaster , Ha fecking ha to you knobs who fell for that rubbish and enabled a severely right-wing UK Tory party to gain power .
You mugs reaped what you sowed big-time .
You've posted up stuff from the Express and Breitbart on here. You can't go all Anakin Skywalker and then come back and tell us that the Emperor's a twat.
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  #10106  
Old 11-10-2016, 11:34 AM
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anti-addick anti-addick is offline
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He really is Jar Jar Binks

"Me thinky want to bring down establishment"
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  #10107  
Old 11-10-2016, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by fang View Post
Always someone else's fault.
No I voted Labour
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  #10108  
Old 11-10-2016, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anti-addick View Post
Are you ******* retarded? You STILL don't understand the power your leave vote handed to the right wing do you?
Those who voted Tory at the last election did that not me .
The Tories called the referendum .
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  #10109  
Old 11-10-2016, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by anti-addick View Post
He really is Jar Jar Binks

"Me thinky want to bring down establishment"
Ultimately that is my goal as a true left-winger who voted brexit . I just hope I live to see the revolution
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  #10110  
Old 11-10-2016, 11:47 AM
Nth Kent Eagle Nth Kent Eagle is offline
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The problem is that Brexit throws up some perverse electoral issues. The majority of Conservative voters wanted to leave but their big business and City backers don't agree. Their small majority makes them vulnerable to both vengeful sacked ministers and those genuinely opposed to Brexit. The majority of Labour voters wanted to remain but outside the London bubble and university towns the majority of Labour MPs seem to represent constituencies which voted for Brexit. The issues could tear both parties apart.

Given that a) the Brexit leadership told us things that weren't deliverable, b) big business and financial vested interests are going to lobby, threaten, intimidate and blackmail the politicians and c) the EU will ensure that we are "punished", there is a strong argument for a House of Commons vote on the agreed package. Quite possibly a further referendum too. HOWEVER, all of that requires the government to put together a remedial package that satisfies the demographics and communities that voted for Brexit. The inconvenient truth for the City, big business and better off demographics is that the majority of those who voted and were C2,D,E, council tenants, pensioners and from declining areas voted to leave. Any proposals have to take their interests and concerns into account.

EDIT, can we invoke Article 50, hold a Commons vote or another referendum and then withdraw it if needed? Also, is there any evidence that those who voted to leave or remain have changed their minds?

Last edited by Nth Kent Eagle; 11-10-2016 at 11:53 AM.
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  #10111  
Old 11-10-2016, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racehorse-80s View Post
The referendum returned a democratic vote for a full Brexit not one that suits the Pro EU lobby that failed to convince the Electorate to vote remain in the first place .
Brexit was not defined pre-referendum. Nor is it yet.
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  #10112  
Old 11-10-2016, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Nth Kent Eagle View Post
The problem is that Brexit throws up some perverse electoral issues. The majority of Conservative voters wanted to leave but their big business and City backers don't agree. Their small majority makes them vulnerable to both vengeful sacked ministers and those genuinely opposed to Brexit. The majority of Labour voters wanted to remain but outside the London bubble and university towns the majority of Labour MPs seem to represent constituencies which voted for Brexit. The issues could tear both parties apart.

Given that a) the Brexit leadership told us things that weren't deliverable, b) big business and financial vested interests are going to lobby, threaten, intimidate and blackmail the politicians and c) the EU will ensure that we are "punished", there is a strong argument for a House of Commons vote on the agreed package. Quite possibly a further referendum too. HOWEVER, all of that requires the government to put together a remedial package that satisfies the demographics and communities that voted for Brexit. The inconvenient truth for the City, big business and better off demographics is that the majority of those who voted and were C2,D,E, council tenants, pensioners and from declining areas voted to leave. Any proposals have to take their interests and concerns into account.
The Government are as far as possible trying to control the process with minimal Parliamentary involvement - this has the implication that the electorate won't be represented by their MPs in the process. You won't have the situation where individual MPs feel they have to force concessions or rebel to protect their seats. The government will choose the weighting it gives to the wishes of its main stakeholders - MPs, donors, party activists and the electorate.

All indications so far is that Brexit policy is driven by party political considerations. C2,D,E and council tenants are not significantly represented within Conservative Party activists so there will need to be a change in direction if you are to get your wish.
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  #10113  
Old 11-10-2016, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Heseltine
We have three ministers now in charge, a brilliant set of appointments in my view because they can come up with the answers which have escaped me ... The ability to trade seems to me an important part of our future ... We have to find places to trade. And if there are all these markets that have escaped the attention of British exporters, it will be marvellous to have it pointed out to them by the new minister responsible.
Quite funny from the Hes.
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  #10114  
Old 11-10-2016, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by rhino_mik View Post
Brexit was not defined pre-referendum. Nor is it yet.
Cameron promised to immediately invoke article 50 and start the 2 year leaving process straightaway if there was a leave vote .
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  #10115  
Old 11-10-2016, 12:16 PM
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[QUOTE=Nth Kent Eagle;13265109

EDIT, can we invoke Article 50, hold a Commons vote or another referendum and then withdraw it if needed? Also, is there any evidence that those who voted to leave or remain have changed their minds?[/QUOTE]
It's a good question. I didn't think so, maybe someone else can expand but I believe once set in motion there is no turning back, so quite what the point of the vote would be I don't know, it's all out of our hands...
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  #10116  
Old 11-10-2016, 12:17 PM
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Thanks, but what I actually asked for is intellectual discussion of the pro-Brexit position. All those sources would primarily have opposed the policy.

What I’m specifically looking for is economic analysis on how Britain can benefit from Brexit and policy analysis on what it would need to do to fulfil this. A source of pro Brexit positions that acknowledges the risks and trade offs and makes considered policy recommendations (not “they have to do a deal”).

This is a political movement, what is its intellectual base? How are those people responding to events since the referendum?
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  #10117  
Old 11-10-2016, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by racehorse-80s View Post
Cameron promised to immediately invoke article 50 and start the 2 year leaving process straightaway if there was a leave vote .
He was a bit mealy mouthed about it but he certainly implied that would happen in a speech to the House. And the Treasury based its forecasts on this statement so the government was assuming this would happen (if not preparing for it).

Although of course under the British constitution Parliament is sovereign and Parliament chose to make the referendum advisory with no deadline for triggering article 50.

Neither the bill or the referendum question mentioned leaving the customs union or the single market so it is not possible to claim a democratic mandate for that direction alone from the poll. Likewise neither source directly ruled it out.

What is clear is that the current policy is not currently being set by the government taking a cold analytic look at the different policy options and plotting the best Brexit path for the country as a whole. It is driven by party consideration.
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  #10118  
Old 11-10-2016, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by racehorse-80s View Post
Cameron promised to immediately invoke article 50 and start the 2 year leaving process straightaway if there was a leave vote .
Great. So that has nothing to do with what you said earlier. I thought your main interest in being out of the EU was a house price crash anyway? Is a hard Brexit the best way to achieve that in your opinion?
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  #10119  
Old 11-10-2016, 12:31 PM
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Already seems like a long time ago that the Brexidiots were congratulating themselves on how well everything seemed to be going since the vote.

Where are you now?
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  #10120  
Old 11-10-2016, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by costello View Post
Already seems like a long time ago that the Brexidiots were congratulating themselves on how well everything seemed to be going since the vote.

Where are you now?
'We've had it worse', 'get over it' etc etc
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