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  #22461  
Old 17-07-2017, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by weltklasse View Post
does assisting in causing misery for their passengers also make business sense?
Like ASLEF do?
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  #22462  
Old 17-07-2017, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adman50 View Post
I don't blame the drivers for not working over time, not for one minute and I have maintained that throughout this thread.

What I don't like is hypocrisy from different organisations that impact the paying commuter who is used as a pawn in this battle.

As I have said repeatedly- in Japan when there is a dispute the barriers are opened and nobody is charged for travelling. Why is this not done in UK? Why piss off and alienate a large percentage of the commuters? Why not take this course of action to gain support!?

Why is ASLEF saying DOO is not safe but have signed it off in the recent past?

Why is pay constantly banded around by ASLEF on their own website yet we are told this is not a pay issue?

Why/how the **** is Grayling still in a job?

Literally 100,000's daily lives are being affected by this and neither DFT, ASLEF or Govia give a flying **** about anyone else. It's a power struggle nothing more nothing less. I am fast coming the realisation that the original DOO argument as been lost so disability is the new trend to grasp onto because it will garner more emotion with people. The problem is I believe it is too late, too many people including myself have been worn down with the constant battle to get to work, get home from work, pick up their kids to care anymore in this he said she said battle. It shouldn't be taking me an hour to get from Victoria to Thornton Heath it really shouldn't. People are at their wits end. I care about my family unit, I care I spend less time with my 1 year old son in the evening. If that makes me selfish so be it. I am honest enough to admit it and own it.

This is why ASLEF have ballsed this up so bad- because the customers are treated with pure contempt and resentment. Engage with the paying public, garner their support but no lets put a fecking link on the website saying we are striking cos of pay. Absolute cretins.
Good post, and one that some drivers should maybe read. Some posters don't want to even view how thousands are suffering.

Happy to take the moral high ground on some points but not the others.
Or not consider that how this action hinders people who do shift work in the medical profession who rely on trains to get to work.

I hope Mushroom is correct and things get sorted
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  #22463  
Old 17-07-2017, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Latvian Eagle View Post
Well yes. They are a business. They will do what makes business sense surely?
starting to wonder what side you are on
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  #22464  
Old 17-07-2017, 07:10 PM
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starting to wonder what side you are on
Just talking common sense. Of course we'd all like a massive rise at the beginning but they ain't that stupud.
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  #22465  
Old 17-07-2017, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cpfc4evandeva View Post
I thank myself for several things when I read this thread, mainly that I don't commute on the train.

But also that I don't tend to associate with people who from their posts, don't appear to give a stuff about anyone less fortunate them, eg folks with disabilities. It's amusing that train drivers get branded for being selfish when you consider the attitude of the accusers.
It's not that simple though is it. Try supporting a disabled relative whilst juggling commuting and keeping your work happy. Try to get time off for hospital whilst also having to say sorry for being late the previous day. Try organising a funeral and then having to rearrange things because a strikes been announced.

I can't imagine one person isn't sympathetic to disabled access but it's not as simple as people being pissed off because they can't get a seat or spend 30 minutes extra on their commute.
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  #22466  
Old 17-07-2017, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mushroom View Post
It's not just about rush hour trains, it's about not treating disabled differently. This is a test case. What happens on Southern, will happen nationwide.

I'm pretty confident the strikes won't happen.
Southern have 13m extra to play with... that will certainly pay for a guaranteed 2nd person.

No strikes
Disabled access
What would happen if that 2nd person was taken ill, late etc. The train would be cancelled?

If they want a guaranteed 2nd person and not run Doors then wouldn't you need backup staff available at the depot too?
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  #22467  
Old 17-07-2017, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Latvian Eagle View Post
I am a member of ASLEF. I would hope ASLEF take constructive criticism on board.

Constructive??? You made some pretty serious allegations. Play fair LE. You've gone beyond constructive criticism
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  #22468  
Old 17-07-2017, 07:20 PM
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Southern Railway bastards

Quote:
Originally Posted by speagle View Post
What would happen if that 2nd person was taken ill, late etc. The train would be cancelled?

If they want a guaranteed 2nd person and not run Doors then wouldn't you need backup staff available at the depot too?

Aslef wanted a list of reasons when a train can run DOO. Southern have withdrawn ALL the reasons in the latest deal, and replaced it with a nice pay rise.

The vote for industrial action went up from 52% to 74%


When Southern got to 52% all they needed to do was tweak the deal so it was more robust, instead they ripped up that deal and threw money at drivers
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Last edited by mushroom; 17-07-2017 at 07:24 PM.
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  #22469  
Old 17-07-2017, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroom View Post
Aslef wanted a list of reasons when a train can run DOO. Southern have withdrawn ALL the reasons in the latest deal, and replaced it with a nice pay rise.

The vote for strike went up from 52% to 74%


When Southern got to 52% all they needed to do was tweak the deal so it was more robust, instead they ripped up that deal and threw money at drivers
It's beyond confusing all these bloody deals!!. Get everyone in a room and do a round of rock, paper scissors. Best of 3.
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  #22470  
Old 17-07-2017, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by speagle View Post
It's beyond confusing all these bloody deals!!. Get everyone in a room and do a round of rock, paper scissors. Best of 3.

As it stands... I'd take that.

Southern should note the vote for industrial action went up when they offered more .

If they have any sense (yea I know) they'll go back to the old deal that they nearly got through.


I'm relatively confident this will be sorted before first strike.
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  #22471  
Old 17-07-2017, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mushroom View Post
Constructive??? You made some pretty serious allegations. Play fair LE. You've gone beyond constructive criticism
As I've said before. Some drivers make pretty bold statements about Southern.

I wouldn't dare think of posting anything about my employers on the web.
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  #22472  
Old 17-07-2017, 07:39 PM
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As I've said before. Some drivers make pretty bold statements about Southern.



I wouldn't dare think of posting anything about my employers on the web.

What LE wrote was beyond bold... that's why he deleted it.
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  #22473  
Old 17-07-2017, 07:42 PM
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Popester came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPopester came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPopester came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPopester came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPopester came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPopester came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPopester came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPopester came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPopester came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPopester came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy dietPopester came here looking for the peace and quiet; the healthy air and the healthy diet
It was clearly a joke.

You're happy to come on here and knowingly abuse customers. That's far worse in my opinion.
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  #22474  
Old 17-07-2017, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by eaglejez View Post
I did a couple for 2 hrs or more and got 8.90 due to them saying 'we have confirmed the delay you experienced was 120 mins or more..."

Its seems the whole process is chaotic and inconsistent ?!
Is that 8.90 per journey?
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  #22475  
Old 17-07-2017, 09:33 PM
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  #22476  
Old 17-07-2017, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Tomo View Post
As I've said before. Some drivers make pretty bold statements about Southern.

I wouldn't dare think of posting anything about my employers on the web.
thing is Southern come out and posted drivers salaries......on posters at mainline train stations clearing trying to incite an anti-driver feeling,
theyve also posted a poster telling people to tweet abuse about guards on strike .....they are also constantly playing announcements saying the train service is bad because drivers dont want to work on their days off....

...the DfT have come out and said:
drivers are greedy,
mad,
we are going to have wars with them,
we are gonna put them in their place,
they are muppets.

I think drivers have a right to have their say about the employer.
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  #22477  
Old 17-07-2017, 11:42 PM
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Most definitely Macstar. It's a dirty war all right. But I make you, mushroom ,latvian and racehorse totally right on this. Just hope the country sees sense in time for Corbyn to send Wilkinson and Grayling packing, the no-nothing tory feckwits. You have all the moral high ground in the world, and no amount of southern government propaganda can ever change that fact.
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  #22478  
Old 18-07-2017, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macstar View Post
thing is Southern come out and posted drivers salaries......on posters at mainline train stations clearing trying to incite an anti-driver feeling,
theyve also posted a poster telling people to tweet abuse about guards on strike .....they are also constantly playing announcements saying the train service is bad because drivers dont want to work on their days off....

...the DfT have come out and said:
drivers are greedy,
mad,
we are going to have wars with them,
we are gonna put them in their place,
they are muppets.

I think drivers have a right to have their say about the employer.
Not under English employment law you don't. You owe a duty of loyalty, fidelity and to act in your employer's best interests.
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  #22479  
Old 18-07-2017, 06:10 AM
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Well this thread has ratcheted up....

Commuting has been hell since the overtime ban. Southern need a full compliment of drivers, not sure how it will go down with the guys who like overtime but it's a crazy model to run on skeleton staff.
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  #22480  
Old 18-07-2017, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Popester View Post
It was clearly a joke.

You're happy to come on here and knowingly abuse customers. That's far worse in my opinion.

I take it this is your much vaunted legal opinion?
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