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  #161  
Old 17-01-2018, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by SA Eagle View Post
Possible penalty/dive, given as dive by ref and player booked. Arguably there was contact, although maybe as a result of player leaving his foot dangling while hurdling the defender (should he have to?). Needless to say there’s disagreement over whether it’s a dive or a penalty that VAR can’t sort because the decision is a matter of opinion, not absolute fact.
Ah ok cheers. I think it's good for sorting out offsides, but even there its a bit of a grey area concerning whether they should blow up at the time or let play continue and see what happens before reviewing. Even then that isn't perfect because if there is a significant delay before a goal is then legitimately scored they won't be able to pull it back. As you say with penalties it's all in the eye of the beholder a bit. They are all leaving their trailing leg in these days and going over. Can't decide if it's good or not tbh.
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  #162  
Old 17-01-2018, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by LLCOOLSTEVE View Post
I am

I hate it

I love the drama of football, the human side of it, the was it right/wrong decisions etc
^^^^ Put me down as another one.

It's implementation on a larger scale will cause untold grief. It has not been at all popular in the A-league apparently (Mickey Mouse though that may be!)
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  #163  
Old 17-01-2018, 11:25 PM
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i think eventually it will have to end in a ‘challenge’ process, similar to Tennis, Cricket etc, where each manager has a certain number of challenges, losing unsuccessful challenges.
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  #164  
Old 17-01-2018, 11:27 PM
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i think eventually it will have to end in a ‘challenge’ process, similar to Tennis, Cricket etc, where each manager has a certain number of challenges, losing unsuccessful challenges.
Please. Nooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!.............
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  #165  
Old 17-01-2018, 11:29 PM
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Please. Nooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!.............
I’m not necessarily a fan, either.
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  #166  
Old 17-01-2018, 11:40 PM
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You’ll all be for it when Roy decides to challenge a foul on Wilf and we get a penalty to win the FA Cup next season
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  #167  
Old 17-01-2018, 11:55 PM
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No system is infallible.

For every contentious one like the Willian incident tonight, there will be 5 straightforward ones where wrong decisions are corrected (e.g. the Leicester goal from last night that would not have stood without VAR). I think it's a good thing, referees deserve a bit of help, the technology is there, we should use it.
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  #168  
Old 18-01-2018, 02:12 AM
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Originally Posted by PalaceForever View Post
No system is infallible.

For every contentious one like the Willian incident tonight, there will be 5 straightforward ones where wrong decisions are corrected (e.g. the Leicester goal from last night that would not have stood without VAR). I think it's a good thing, referees deserve a bit of help, the technology is there, we should use it.
This.

I cannot understand why VAR is even slightly controversial. It takes less time than most injury breaks. Furthermore, at its least effective, as in the Chelsea example, there is still the possibility of human error that the haters say they want.

However what it will do is eliminate the most egregious errors, like these:

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  #169  
Old 18-01-2018, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PalaceForever View Post
No system is infallible.

For every contentious one like the Willian incident tonight, there will be 5 straightforward ones where wrong decisions are corrected (e.g. the Leicester goal from last night that would not have stood without VAR). I think it's a good thing, referees deserve a bit of help, the technology is there, we should use it.
I think it's completely the other way around. Far more contentious decisions coming down to opinion in football than clear cut decisions.

Even the Leicester one is contentious for me. The ref delayed his whistle when the flag went up, which did Leicester a massive favour. Another ref wouldn't have. What if the same situation had occurred 20 yards further out? The whistle would definitely have gone. That means some of those decisions will be sorted and others won't.

What about when the ref wrongly gives a foul for a push against someone who scores with a header? If the whistle goes before the ball crosses the line it can't be overturned.

My biggest gripe though is that every goal will be checked and they will check back to the start of the move. That could be a long way back. So every time a goal is scored we will have to cut short celebrations to watch the ref standing there with his finger in his ear. The rush we all get when Palace score will be a thing of the past and football will be massively diminished as a result.

Needs to be scrapped.
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  #170  
Old 18-01-2018, 08:10 AM
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We have to have VAR. Not just to sort out the usual injustices, but to prevent TV analysing an issue to death after a ref may or may not have made a mistake.

They analysed the Wilf penalty versus Man City to death after the game.

Also, like rugby, I think that the ref should ask the VAR ref if there is any clear reason why the refs decision should not be upheld.

For example, if a player scores a try and there is doubt in the refs mind, then he asks the TV ref if there is any reason why the try should not be awarded.
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  #171  
Old 18-01-2018, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardent Eagle Forever View Post
We have to have VAR. Not just to sort out the usual injustices, but to prevent TV analysing an issue to death after a ref may or may not have made a mistake.



They analysed the Wilf penalty versus Man City to death after the game.



Also, like rugby, I think that the ref should ask the VAR ref if there is any clear reason why the refs decision should not be upheld.



For example, if a player scores a try and there is doubt in the refs mind, then he asks the TV ref if there is any reason why the try should not be awarded.

How would VAR have stopped the Zaha debate? The pundits will simply say they disagree with the final decision after VAR has been consulted.
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  #172  
Old 18-01-2018, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardent Eagle Forever View Post
We have to have VAR. Not just to sort out the usual injustices, but to prevent TV analysing an issue to death after a ref may or may not have made a mistake.

They analysed the Wilf penalty versus Man City to death after the game.

Also, like rugby, I think that the ref should ask the VAR ref if there is any clear reason why the refs decision should not be upheld.

For example, if a player scores a try and there is doubt in the refs mind, then he asks the TV ref if there is any reason why the try should not be awarded.
Did you see the game last night? If anything there was more analysis of the decision and more criticism of the officials than there would usually be.

Wilf can forget getting penalties under VAR. Refs will be cautious due to his reputation and, as we saw last night, their colleagues watching on the box will back them up.
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  #173  
Old 18-01-2018, 08:34 AM
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Refs like in other sports are being told to delay any marginal decisions so that the correct one can be made. It's how the Leicester one was allowed to stand because the ref is told not to blow the whistle early.
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  #174  
Old 18-01-2018, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Ardent Eagle Forever View Post
We have to have VAR. Not just to sort out the usual injustices, but to prevent TV analysing an issue to death after a ref may or may not have made a mistake.
Like last night you mean?
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  #175  
Old 18-01-2018, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by tsunamiman View Post
Refs like in other sports are being told to delay any marginal decisions so that the correct one can be made. It's how the Leicester one was allowed to stand because the ref is told not to blow the whistle early.
That makes sense (and I think Jon Moss was right to let play go on the other night), but how long can the delay be? I saw a France game where a player was wrongly flagged offside about half way inside the opposition half. He was clean through, but the whistle went as the flag went up. In the same game France had a goal ruled out after a review because it was marginally offside.

If we're not careful you get to the point where the ref doesn't stop the game at all when the flag goes up.
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  #176  
Old 18-01-2018, 09:26 AM
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Probably an unpopular view but think that the call on the Willian pen/dive is correct. I thought it might have been a pen on first viewing but after the replays Willian started to fall before the contact.

I'm amazed some BBC pundits are labeling it as an 'obvious' penalty.
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  #177  
Old 18-01-2018, 09:55 AM
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Probably an unpopular view but think that the call on the Willian pen/dive is correct. I thought it might have been a pen on first viewing but after the replays Willian started to fall before the contact.

I'm amazed some BBC pundits are labeling it as an 'obvious' penalty.
I agree with you. I think the ref took the dive as the first infringement and took the careless tackle as the second. I also think that had Willian not dived, he would still have been fouled and got the penalty.

With all the incorrect comments coming out of Shearer's and other pundits' mouths, I would like to hear a ref explain after the game why he thought it was a dive.

All the VAR does is correct obvious incorrect decisions. This means there will still be incorrect decisions but fewer of them. People who therefore say VAR gets things wrong and should be scrapped are in fact just allowing more incorrect decisions into the game.
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  #178  
Old 18-01-2018, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by JamTheEagle View Post
Probably an unpopular view but think that the call on the Willian pen/dive is correct. I thought it might have been a pen on first viewing but after the replays Willian started to fall before the contact.

I'm amazed some BBC pundits are labeling it as an 'obvious' penalty.
I missed this in RT and only saw it after the match. It seems to me one of those that its perhaps more misleading when you watch the slow motion than it is in RT. I think that is why they area instructed to watch both. when making the decision. My verdict would have been that it was a penalty and there shouldn't have been a booking but I am not sure I would use the word 'obvious'. I can see why the ref might not be sure enough to award the penalty but I am less clear why he was certain enough to then book him for diving. Was that before the VAR results or a result of them?


Again I haven't studied it but I actually felt a bit sorry for Morata. I thought he was definitely tugged back by the defender in the box, took half a stride but then possibly 'deliberately' went down because he had been pulled back. So I think technically it was a penalty and possibly a dive Oh lordy, lordy what a mess. I assume the rules would say the game stops with the first instance and so he wouldn't get a booking but he should get a penalty. He got the yellow and went loopy about it and then I assume the second yellow was for dissent or abusive language? The dive booking seems a bit harsh because 'sometimes' when you get pulled back like that you aren't consciously diving to cheat but you know you can't get there and the legs go and so I wouldn't have booked him. On this occasion it was difficult to tell which it was. His appeal was fair enough because there was contact.

Pedro's dive, that he got away without a booking, was ridiculous and not sure what the VAR dude was at when that happened.
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  #179  
Old 18-01-2018, 10:08 AM
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I thought Pedro was booked, wasn't he? Which is why he was sent off for a second bookable offence later on.
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  #180  
Old 18-01-2018, 10:11 AM
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VAR proved the ref was right. Willian was already falling when he was ever so slightly touched (lets be honest, the wind could have touched him more than the defender). Trying to trick the ref and it didn't work.

How footballers think they can get away with shit like this when there's about 15 cameras on them at all times amazes me. I know it's cliché to say footballers are thick, but they don't help themselves.
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