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Old 14-02-2019, 06:45 AM
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Ban kids from heading?

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Ryan Mason has called for a ban on children heading footballs to be introduced.
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Old 14-02-2019, 09:13 AM
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I think their is a valid argument to ban it in all youth football up to U11/U12.
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Old 14-02-2019, 09:20 AM
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I used to head the ball quite a lot as a kid.

Might explain a few things.
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Old 14-02-2019, 09:26 AM
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I think their is a valid argument to ban it in all youth football up to U11/U12.
I am not convinced there is. I've certainly not seen any research to suggest that allowing heading in kids football has caused any problems whatsoever. Is there any?

The reality is that kids barely head it anyway and they certainly don't do so when the thing is traveling at any great speed. They also do not do drills with repetitive heading.

My son has played for the last 7 years and he is now 12. I would say he heads it more than most and you'd be lucky if he does so more than 10 times in a season! Even more rarely in training. Equally i suppose by the same logic the game wouldn't change much if you banned it.
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Old 14-02-2019, 10:37 AM
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In favour of a ban for kids under 10 or 11, but as has been said, many don't header the ball anyway, they naturally shy away from it in my experience!

The balls are nothing like they were in years gone by, especially when it was wet.. that would add a few pounds on the weight
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Old 14-02-2019, 10:42 AM
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This is probably sensible, but the evidence needs to be considered carefully, including any risk of fewer children taking part in sport as a result and the resultant serious health impacts of lack of exercise.
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Old 14-02-2019, 10:53 AM
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After taking plenty of views on board, we as a junior club issued guidance to coaches to stop it in training at younger age groups - essentially u11s and down. With advice to reduce it for other groups to essentials for corners etc. There was an argument that teaching technique was beneficial but advice from a parent who is a specialist, suggested that technique does nothing to reduce risk of damage, it merely makes football heading better!

In actually matches, as mentioned, children till a certain age rarely head the ball much anyway. It wasn't banned during games but coaches gradually learnt not to shout to kids to head it in matches and play slightly improved, as they started chesting it etc. Mainly parents seemed the ones with the issue, still crying at the kids to do so.

It's more difficult for older age groups, with increased strength, kicking power, proper corners etc.
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Old 14-02-2019, 10:59 AM
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I wouldn't personally ban heading. I don't think most times they head it the impact is significant.

I would just encourage coaches to take players out of the game if they suffer any kind of head injury. As a parent it's the only injury i won't encourage my two to "run off". I think it's worth taking the cautious approach.

Where is the evidence to suggest heading in football has caused kids issues? Is there any?
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Old 14-02-2019, 11:04 AM
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After taking plenty of views on board, we as a junior club issued guidance to coaches to stop it in training at younger age groups - essentially u11s and down. With advice to reduce it for other groups to essentials for corners etc. There was an argument that teaching technique was beneficial but advice from a parent who is a specialist, suggested that technique does nothing to reduce risk of damage, it merely makes football heading better!

In actually matches, as mentioned, children till a certain age rarely head the ball much anyway. It wasn't banned during games but coaches gradually learnt not to shout to kids to head it in matches and play slightly improved, as they started chesting it etc. Mainly parents seemed the ones with the issue, still crying at the kids to do so.

It's more difficult for older age groups, with increased strength, kicking power, proper corners etc.
Whilst I appreciate why as soon as it's raised and the evidence isn't available you would do this as a group responsible for children. I think it's overly cautious.

All the articles i have read seem to extrapolate from a number of cases of damage having been done to players that have been heading several hundred balls a week professionally. The idea that there are loads of brain damaged people walking about because we allowed heading at a young age in junior football? I am not buying it, certainly for now.
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Old 14-02-2019, 11:13 AM
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Played football competitively at school when the ball was much heavier than today. Heading was tough and felt the brain shudder sometimes. Wouldn't want it banned as its a skill and a big part of the game but some form of unobtrusive head protection should be compulsory.
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Old 14-02-2019, 11:28 AM
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I think it needs to be looked into very seriously. There's not any evidence of the harm of heading the ball at that age - use of lighter balls and kids can't kick as hard mean that it may not be an issue.

The problem is that most serious potential consequence - CTE - can only be diagnosed posthumously and takes a long time to develop. Jeff Astle was only diagnosed posthumously in 2004, and a number of footballers from the same era are suffering from dementia which may indicate they too have been affected.

If it's being accelerated by early exposure then there's no doubt it should be stopped at young ages.
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Old 14-02-2019, 11:29 AM
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Whilst I appreciate why as soon as it's raised and the evidence isn't available you would do this as a group responsible for children. I think it's overly cautious.

All the articles i have read seem to extrapolate from a number of cases of damage having been done to players that have been heading several hundred balls a week professionally. The idea that there are loads of brain damaged people walking about because we allowed heading at a young age in junior football? I am not buying it, certainly for now.
I think I agree you really.

But as a management group we looked at the subject alongside a revamp of our safeguarding generally (part of the sex abuse fallout, again being cautious as the set up is so different to what were primarily academies, very different to a local club).

One of the parents co-opted is a neuro specialist - he was confident there was no documented evidence at young ages; there were issues with concussion obviously but all studies seemed to suggest it was indeed adults at high levels of the game at risk. Yet we also felt there was no problem in making some changes, hence in training - if kids rarely headed the bloody thing in a match, why do repetitive drills in training? Yet that was balanced with the knowledge that older groups would need to at some stage.

Overly cautious, but an end result broadly popular with all parties, inc kids. And tbh, if some evidence merged later down the line, how awful would we feel for making at least some changes?
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Old 14-02-2019, 11:34 AM
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This first came up in 2016, then 2017 and 2018, so I am surprised it has not been introduced?

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Old 14-02-2019, 11:47 AM
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This first came up in 2016, then 2017 and 2018, so I am surprised it has not been introduced?

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One of the links is simply one expert giving an opinion - I listened to the interview in full (I believe it is the same one) at the time or a bit later and actually he was essentially reimagining football entirely as a non contact sport (for younger kids). Now, I know a number of kids for whom the physicality is off putting. But many for whom it is the point. What effect does that have on participation levels for instance?

The PFA reacted because basically, they have been woeful in the support of and studies into older professional players and diverted it I feel to junior level - without any evidence to support it. They'd have been better off using some of Taylor's ridiculous salary (and some TV money) to actually fund some proper long term work into this, all levels of the game.
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Old 14-02-2019, 01:54 PM
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I think I agree you really.

But as a management group we looked at the subject alongside a revamp of our safeguarding generally (part of the sex abuse fallout, again being cautious as the set up is so different to what were primarily academies, very different to a local club).

One of the parents co-opted is a neuro specialist - he was confident there was no documented evidence at young ages; there were issues with concussion obviously but all studies seemed to suggest it was indeed adults at high levels of the game at risk. Yet we also felt there was no problem in making some changes, hence in training - if kids rarely headed the bloody thing in a match, why do repetitive drills in training? Yet that was balanced with the knowledge that older groups would need to at some stage.

Overly cautious, but an end result broadly popular with all parties, inc kids. And tbh, if some evidence merged later down the line, how awful would we feel for making at least some changes?

All very reasonable and i doubt it will make any difference to the quality of footballer you produce or indeed the quality of their heading. If i was in your shoes i might come to the same decision.

One thing i would add, you can ban it all you want but they will do it in the park on their own anyway! Well the ones that would in the matches.
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Old 14-02-2019, 08:15 PM
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I coach kids (10 and 12 years old) and I don't let them head a proper ball in training; whenever we practice that skill we use a much lighter ball. It's the technique they're learning so it doesn't really matter that it's not a proper / full weight ball. But there's no way you can stop it happening during the game at the weekend.
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Has been banned in US youth 'soccer' for a number of years now, there have been contrasting research papers on it.

It will be interesting to see how it effects the US game in future generations, will they look to bring the ball down now as opposed to heading it? Or will they lose aerial battles on a more consistent basis.

In my opinion if it has even a remote chance of causing brain damage then it should be stopped at younger age groups.
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Old Yesterday, 03:57 PM
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Is it at all posible that now that much lighter balls with less water retention are used that there is less of a threat to health than hitherto. Players from the 60s had it much touher
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