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  #2981  
Old 03-08-2016, 06:47 AM
olly cromwell olly cromwell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
To busy chasing Pokemons.

Or whatever else was the 'fad' on June 23rd.

But I think we need to accept that Remainers were better educated, better looking, wore better shoes, better dancers, had better taste in music, better clothes, better cars, better jobs, better everything really than us rather grubby Leavers. In fact, everytime they pass a mirror they have to stop and take a look because they are so damn smashing that if they could, they would eat themselves.

And they still lost. LOL. They are all these pretty, bright young things and yet they are still going to be stripped of their European citizenship and 'rights' by a bunch of barely literate, ignorant bigots. Its beautiful, it really is.

Still chuckling about it now.
Isn't it amazing how the left always seem to come up with some pathetic excuses as to why they lost

The leave voters are bigots
The leave voters are stupid
The leave voters are old
The leave voters are poor

The truth is they simply can't get their "intellectual" heads around the fact that they lost and as a result they will continue to lose

At least they have this thread to come on to vent........bless
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  #2982  
Old 03-08-2016, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by olly cromwell View Post
Isn't it amazing how the left always seem to come up with some pathetic excuses as to why they lost
Why do you think this is a left/right issue?

You must be a Brexiter.
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  #2983  
Old 03-08-2016, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by TAK View Post
If such predictions are likely do people think the Government has a responsibility to step back from Brexit?

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They do, but seeing as various Brexiters, e.g. Rees-Mogg, have criticised the BoE for expressing an opinion I also think that there will be pressure to ignore the opinion.
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  #2984  
Old 03-08-2016, 06:58 AM
Mat ov CPFC Mat ov CPFC is offline
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Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Why do you think this is a left/right issue?

You must be a Brexiter.

To be fair, it used to be a left/right issue, at least in the mainstream.

Now it is more about aesthetics than politics. Politically, the debate around the EU has been a joke, especially from those of you who would have had us remain.

The only ideology on display has been nationalism in terms of the Leave side. But from the Remain side, then nothing what so ever. Not one of you has made a federalist case for the EU, which is the only logical political one to make.

Last edited by Mat ov CPFC; 03-08-2016 at 07:03 AM.
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  #2985  
Old 03-08-2016, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
.
The only ideology on display has been nationalism in terms of the Leave side. But from the Remain side, then nothing what so ever. Not one of you has made a federalist case for the EU, which is the only logical political one to make.
You criticise people for not making an argument they don't believe in, and say any other argument they might make is not legitimate?

Love it. A mind so closed it doesn't even have a way in.
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  #2986  
Old 03-08-2016, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
To be fair, it used to be a left/right issue, at least in the mainstream.

Now it is more about aesthetics than politics. Politically, the debate around the EU has been a joke, especially from those of you who would have had us remain.

The only ideology on display has been nationalism in terms of the Leave side. But from the Remain side, then nothing what so ever. Not one of you has made a federalist case for the EU, which is the only logical political one to make.
So the Remainers have to indulge in lying? I thought that was the domain of the Leave brigade. You are correct though that ignorant nationalism was at the core of the Leave argument
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  #2987  
Old 03-08-2016, 07:37 AM
Mat ov CPFC Mat ov CPFC is offline
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Originally Posted by Jordan's Jacket View Post
So the Remainers have to indulge in lying? I thought that was the domain of the Leave brigade. You are correct though that ignorant nationalism was at the core of the Leave argument

Nationalism was at the heart of the Leave argument. Naturally, I would take umbrage at your description of it as being ignorant.

But what was at the heart of the Remain side? What was the political stance behind that?

Now I can see why a strong case could have been made for a Europe that is plainly moving towards ever closer political and financial union. But I never saw it made, especially on this BBS. All I ever saw was a general agreement that the EU was rubbish but that it was better for our wallets to put up with that general rubbishness along with some vague notions about how Britain could reform it. Ignoring the elephant in the room of the single currency and how the future of the EU has to be shaped by that.
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  #2988  
Old 03-08-2016, 08:06 AM
olly cromwell olly cromwell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz View Post
Why do you think this is a left/right issue?

You must be a Brexiter.
In this thread it does seem to be although I take your point as no one seems to be saying that Cameron /Osborne were right
However there does seem to be a trend for the Remainers to adopt the cameronesque strategy of blaming others to deflect attention from their own failures, in Cameron's case it was "benefit scroungers" in some left leaning peeps on here it tends to be the old / poor

Yes I am

There I have answered all of your points
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  #2989  
Old 03-08-2016, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
Now I can see why a strong case could have been made for a Europe that is plainly moving towards ever closer political and financial union. But I never saw it made, especially on this BBS. .
Perhaps because you are the only BBS member who can see why a strong case could have been made for a Europe that is plainly moving towards ever closer political and financial union.
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  #2990  
Old 03-08-2016, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
I have been appalled by the reaction of many of the Remainers not only on here but out in the real world over this democracy question. I genuinely believed that the notion of one man/one vote was absolutely concreted into our collective psyche but that has taken an enormous battering over the last few weeks.
Or it's been re-affirmed if you believe in a representative democracy, which I do while you dismiss any distinction. You could rightly criticise the way parliaments & governments have acted in some respects but the fact remains that it has been our chosen system for 5 centuries. And one key advantage of it is that it has checks & balances against the rule of a minority by a majority with the consequences we see amongst countries inhabited by johnny foreigner. We elect and mandate our representatives to decide on what's best for the whole country, especially, under our social traditions, the poor and vulnerable. You can pour scorn on it all you like, & threaten to attack our democracy by burning Westminster, but we are not, & nor should ever be, ruled by a direct democracy.
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  #2991  
Old 03-08-2016, 08:17 AM
Mat ov CPFC Mat ov CPFC is offline
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Originally Posted by mik59 View Post
Or it's been re-affirmed if you believe in a representative democracy, which I do while you dismiss any distinction. You could rightly criticise the way parliaments & governments have acted in some respects but the fact remains that it has been our chosen system for 5 centuries. And one key advantage of it is that it has checks & balances against the rule of a minority by a majority with the consequences we see amongst countries inhabited by johnny foreigner. We elect and mandate our representatives to decide on what's best for the whole country, especially, under our social traditions, the poor and vulnerable. You can pour scorn on it all you like, & threaten to attack our democracy by burning Westminster, but we are not, & nor should ever be, ruled by a direct democracy.
The referendum on June 23rd was on a specific, constitutional issue. The Government gave a cast iron, no small print, pledge that the outcome of that vote would be respected and acted upon. It was a simple question with only two, clear cut, options offered.

This is not about how we are being ruled. This was about a single issue concerning this countries future. And it was a clear and concise victory for the Leave campaign. An exercise in pure democracy.

Can you can honestly tell me that if the vote had gone the other way that you would be making the argument that it was only advisory and that Parliament had no duty to act upon that?
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  #2992  
Old 03-08-2016, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
Can you can honestly tell me that if the vote had gone the other way that you would be making the argument that it was only advisory and that Parliament had no duty to act upon that?
Your man Farage was trying to dispute the (forecast) result before Leave had won, simply because he thought it was 'going the other way'.

And it was always only advisory. That was clear to everyone.
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  #2993  
Old 03-08-2016, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mat ov CPFC View Post
The referendum on June 23rd was on a specific, constitutional issue. The Government gave a cast iron, no small print, pledge that the outcome of that vote would be respected and acted upon. It was a simple question with only two, clear cut, options offered.

This is not about how we are being ruled. This was about a single issue concerning this countries future. And it was a clear and concise victory for the Leave campaign. An exercise in pure democracy.

Can you can honestly tell me that if the vote had gone the other way that you would be making the argument that it was only advisory and that Parliament had no duty to act upon that?
We have a different government now.
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  #2994  
Old 03-08-2016, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olly cromwell View Post
Isn't it amazing how the left always seem to come up with some pathetic excuses as to why they lost

The leave voters are bigots
The leave voters are stupid
The leave voters are old
The leave voters are poor

The truth is they simply can't get their "intellectual" heads around the fact that they lost and as a result they will continue to lose

At least they have this thread to come on to vent........bless
I think you will find as many on the left voted leave as remain . Even Corbyn I suspect is happy with the Brexit ,

Last edited by racehorse-80s; 03-08-2016 at 08:39 AM.
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  #2995  
Old 03-08-2016, 08:34 AM
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Another predictable EU banking crisis looming large that will lead to a recession and financial turmoil again but I suspect the bitter remain camp will blame Brexit .
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  #2996  
Old 03-08-2016, 08:37 AM
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The notion that the Leave/Remain argument equated to the Right/Left is absurdly simplistic. There's little point in engaging in debate with anyone clinging onto it.
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  #2997  
Old 03-08-2016, 08:37 AM
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And it was always only advisory. That was clear to everyone.
Well it was not clear to me. In fact, I never heard that being discussed once before the vote and certainly not from anybody on the Remain side.

And the reason being, was that it was bullshit. Nobody ever considered this referendum to be 'advisory'. There was an absolute consensus that the vote on June 23rd was to be decisive in terms of how the result was acted upon. Every discussion & debate around the referendum was always around an agreed upon consensus that the referendum was going to be honoured, one way or the other.

You can slime around and try and make this ludicrous claim now but nobody is buying into it and to be fair, the Government have made it clear that Brexit will be honoured.

But I am truly sickened by many of you on here who seem to relish even the smallest chance of the democratic will of the British people being ignored. And yet many of you would be the first to decry people for being apathetic about politics. Vomit inducing hypocrisy.
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  #2998  
Old 03-08-2016, 08:38 AM
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Another predictable EU banking crisis looming large that will lead to a recession and financial turmoil again but I suspect the bitter remain camp will blame Brexit .
Whereas the enlightened "Leave Camp" will take a more balanced view, of course.

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Old 03-08-2016, 08:42 AM
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The comment below from the FT made me chuckle. The article itself explores the lack of clarity between Davis, Fox and Johnson's roles. To view the link you have to Register or Login

19 hours ago
So, this is how the debate reads so far. I kid you not, it's practically verbatim:

Remainers (left holding the Brexit baby after the Leavers... left) "WTF?"

Leavers "We voted Brexit, now You Remainers need to implement it"

Remainers "But it's not possible!"

Leavers "The People Have Spoken. Therefore it is possible. You just have to think positively."

Remainers "And do what exactly?"

Leavers "Come up with a Plan that will leave us all better off outside the EU than in it"

Remainers "But it's not possible!"

Leavers "Quit with the negative vibes. The People Have Spoken."

Remainers "But even you don't know how!"

Leavers "That's your problem, we've done our bit and voted, we're going to sit here and eat popcorn and watch as you do it."

Remainers "Shouldn't you do it?"

Leavers "It's not up to us to work out the detail, it's up to you experts."

Remainers "I thought you'd had enough of experts"

Leavers "Remain experts."

Remainers "There are no Leave experts"

Leavers "Then you'll have to do it then. Oh, and by the way, no dragging your feet or complaining about it, because if you do a deal we don't want, we'll eat you alive."

Remainers "But you don't know what you want!"

Leavers "We want massive economic growth, no migration, free trade with the EU and every other country, on our terms, the revival of British industry, re-open the coal mines, tea and vicars on every village green, some bunting, and maybe restoration of the empire."

Remainers "You're delusional."

Leavers "We're a delusional majority. DEMOCRACY! So do the thing that isn't possible, very quickly, and give all Leavers what they want, even though they don't know what they want, and ignore the 16 million other voters who disagree. They're tight trouser latte-sipping hipsters who whine all the time, who cares."
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Old 03-08-2016, 08:51 AM
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