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  #81  
Old 15-01-2019, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by thefox View Post
Gammon

Snowflake

Gammon

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I thought I'd start it off.

Do at least 50 reps. Its good for the stamina.
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  #82  
Old 15-01-2019, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by MFBias View Post
but I see through the actions of Gillette. They are trying to sell more razors that is it.
their shaving foam /gel department must be livid.
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  #83  
Old 15-01-2019, 03:07 PM
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  #84  
Old 15-01-2019, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MFBias View Post
I would be happy to discuss change until the cows come home. It is still virtue signalling that a brand has jumped on a political movement to align their brand to create attention and it has worked.

I merely said that sex used to be used to sell, now virtue signalling sells, can anyone argue brands arnt doing this at the moment?.

It was infered I was ‘alt-right’ in my views for saying that. This is clearly not having a discussion but dismissing, labelling me, jumping to a conclusion and then equally shutting down. I never said the topic is not worthy, but I see through the actions of Gillette. They are trying to sell more razors that is it.
I hate the term ‘virtue signalling,’ but agree with the gist of what you’re saying. E.g, how certain restaurants, brands etc massively exploit LGBT pride and the rainbow flag for sales.
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  #85  
Old 15-01-2019, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Little Fozzie View Post
What are you talking about?

Also, a 'bloke attack'? Can't help but feel you've taken this ad a bit personally. There clearly is a problem in society with 'toxic masculinity' or whatever. This addresses that, and if you feel personally attacked by it, maybe you should take a look at yourself and the way you act.
WTF are you on? I've brought up two wonderful daughters, one is a nurse now working on the cardiac care unit of Bristol Children's Hospital and the other completing an MSc in Biomedical Science, so piss off talking as if I'm some sort of Bill Cosby.

You're another that can't comprehend what somebody is saying then points the finger. The way men naturally behave is completely under attack in the media. Pro-women articles on media outlet websites, often slamming men in them, outnumber articles about men considerably, particularly on the BBC new website every day. If it were the other way around people like you would go mental.

I just want to live and let live without having to tread on eggshells that I might 'offend' some women. Won't be long before holding the door open for a women will be considered shameful behaviour at this rate !
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  #86  
Old 15-01-2019, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by PauLo View Post
I'm not even sure what "blokiness" actually means.
That is no surprise.
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  #87  
Old 15-01-2019, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by TennesseeKing View Post
Wanting a shift of the paradigm towards more discussion of what is and isn't traditionally seen as being masculine is only a good thing. I still just question whether or not it's going to be achieved with the style used and the choice of wording. Change the wording towards something else like toxic lad culture or something else and you'd garner far less negative reaction with people misunderstanding the overall point, leading to people that would have been more open to engaging walling themselves off even more.
I think the point is that some of this behaviour has been normalised and institutionalised to the point where men feel ashamed to speak out for fear of bullying/humiliation. The ad is pointing out that macho bullying behaviour by men to men is commonplace and has been for years, but actually its not right and you don't need to accept it or teach your kids its normal. I think its better that they went with a blunt hammer approach rather than the softly softly afraid to offend anyone tone, which would have been panned by all sides.
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  #88  
Old 15-01-2019, 03:44 PM
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I can see this has all moved on anyway, too busy at work to argue this toss.
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  #89  
Old 15-01-2019, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CP-RJW View Post
I hate the term ‘virtue signalling,’ but agree with the gist of what you’re saying. E.g, how certain restaurants, brands etc massively exploit LGBT pride and the rainbow flag for sales.
What else can I call it; this phoney brand alignment purely for attention? this is the first I heard the it was an offensive term.

Why do you hate the term? It’s pretty descriptive of what it is.
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  #90  
Old 15-01-2019, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by MFBias View Post
What else can I call it; this phoney brand alignment purely for attention? this is the first I heard the it was an offensive term.

Why do you hate the term? It’s pretty descriptive of what it is.
Association. 95% of the people I’ve heard use it are massive wankers. Has just become a right wing buzzterm in my mind.
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  #91  
Old 15-01-2019, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopKnot View Post
I think the point is that some of this behaviour has been normalised and institutionalised to the point where men feel ashamed to speak out for fear of bullying/humiliation. The ad is pointing out that macho bullying behaviour by men to men is commonplace and has been for years, but actually its not right and you don't need to accept it or teach your kids its normal. I think its better that they went with a blunt hammer approach rather than the softly softly afraid to offend anyone tone, which would have been panned by all sides.
All completely fair points you make, these are the things that I wanted some clarification on with regards to what toxic masculinity is supposed to be. Because it seems like it encompasses a lot of different things to different people, with a lot of very valid points brought up.

I have definitely seen examples of bullying behaviour being normalised, however I would ask the question, does this really have anything to do with masculinity? Because I have seen bullying culture and behaviour almost equally from women and men. I think these issues are more to do with a systemic workplace culture throughout society as opposed to it being an issue solely the fault of toxicity within masculinity.

I don't really associate the idea of masculinity with hyper macho individuals therefore I suppose this is why I feel the term toxic masculinity doesn't really suit the issues being discussed. I've always associated masculinity with being a man, not needing to feel like you have to dick-measure with other people or prove yourself 'manly' to other people. I've always associated those behaviours more with little boys that have chips on their shoulders with fragile egos and a need to try and trample upon other people. Those aren't men, men are secure within themselves and have nothing to prove to anyone. Therefore it's more of a 'lad culture' issue rather than masculinity, individuals that are still at heart immature and unable to accept growing up and responsibility.

Referring to it as toxic masculinity is the equivalent of tackling someone and winning the ball but clattering the person as well, it hits on good points whilst at least for me it does so using terminology that will cause people to not see it for the things you have described, feeling like it's some ad hominem attack upon them and masculinity as a whole.

You may very well be right though, perhaps sometimes you require the proverbial sledgehammer to crack a nut to get the topic on the wider agenda rather than using a more nuanced approach and not ruffling as many feathers. And I do agree there are a number of issues for men to address.
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  #92  
Old 15-01-2019, 04:13 PM
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WTF are you on? I've brought up two wonderful daughters, one is a nurse now working on the cardiac care unit of Bristol Children's Hospital and the other completing an MSc in Biomedical Science, so piss off talking as if I'm some sort of Bill Cosby.
Bill Cosby's daughters got degrees and have been successful artists
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  #93  
Old 15-01-2019, 04:16 PM
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  #94  
Old 15-01-2019, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Spindle View Post
WTF are you on? I've brought up two wonderful daughters, one is a nurse now working on the cardiac care unit of Bristol Children's Hospital and the other completing an MSc in Biomedical Science, so piss off talking as if I'm some sort of Bill Cosby.

You're another that can't comprehend what somebody is saying then points the finger. The way men naturally behave is completely under attack in the media. Pro-women articles on media outlet websites, often slamming men in them, outnumber articles about men considerably, particularly on the BBC new website every day. If it were the other way around people like you would go mental.

I just want to live and let live without having to tread on eggshells that I might 'offend' some women. Won't be long before holding the door open for a women will be considered shameful behaviour at this rate !
I also worry about articles that are 'pro-women'
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  #95  
Old 15-01-2019, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by se1eagle View Post
Gillette advert from 1932 - if you don't shave, your wife will leave you!

This genderless thing has been going longer than I thought.
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  #96  
Old 15-01-2019, 04:53 PM
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I also worry about articles that are 'pro-women'
Do they still have them in phoneboxes ?
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  #97  
Old 15-01-2019, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by se1eagle View Post
Gillette advert from 1932 - if you don't shave, your wife will leave you!

That's racist against hipsters.
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  #98  
Old 15-01-2019, 06:57 PM
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Shit ad put together by ad people who are desperately trying to convince themselves they have a higher purpose in life and to hopefully scoop some awards in the process.

Hopefully most people ignore it on grounds of being a cynical attempt to jump on a bandwagon or just ignore it full stop. It’s not even particularly well put together IMO.
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  #99  
Old 15-01-2019, 07:11 PM
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I agree with the concept of toxic masculinity for the most part, and think it’s fine as a label in most cases. The one scenario I don’t agree with it being used is when a man is suffering from mental health issues or something due to not knowing how to express his emotions (which is part of toxic masculinity iirc). Just kinda sounds like victim blaming to me. Maybe it’s just me interpretating it as a term of condemnation, which is why I think it’s suitable for a man who’s pervy, violent, patronising towards women or whatever. That’s just my two cents.
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  #100  
Old 15-01-2019, 08:09 PM
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I agree with the concept of toxic masculinity for the most part, and think it’s fine as a label in most cases. The one scenario I don’t agree with it being used is when a man is suffering from mental health issues or something due to not knowing how to express his emotions (which is part of toxic masculinity iirc). Just kinda sounds like victim blaming to me. Maybe it’s just me interpretating it as a term of condemnation, which is why I think it’s suitable for a man who’s pervy, violent, patronising towards women or whatever. That’s just my two cents.
What is the concept of ‘toxic masculinity’ as you see it?
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