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  #22601  
Old 19-07-2017, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by mushroom View Post
I disagree... Drivers make themselves available for rest day working, but it was never enough. Resource Managers at my old depot were always phoning drivers at home to get work covered. I've mentioned on here before, they got so desperate they would chop up jobs to fit around my school runs. Some drivers want O/T... some drivers don't.
of course some do and some don't but enough so to make the service run in almost all circumstances. Otherwise we'd see mass cancellations on other lines fairly frequently.

We don't
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  #22602  
Old 19-07-2017, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
of course some do and some don't but enough so to make the service run in almost all circumstances. Otherwise we'd see mass cancellations on other lines fairly frequently.

We don't
I would say a fair % of drivers (at my old depot) would have to be convinced in to doing O/T... that would mean Resource Managers phoning them up at home and either offering to tailor jobs around their commitments or throwing money at them.. so to say there is enough that want to do O/T is incorrect... and in summer it gets worse... a few years ago, they got sooo desperate they were offering drivers 150 plus their hourly rate to come in.
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  #22603  
Old 19-07-2017, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by mushroom View Post
Having two parents both doing shift work and sorting childcare is challenging... not doing rest days makes that far less challenging.

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I agree there. I feel so much better for not working rest days. My Mrs does shift work, and childcare was always stressful. I also have a few business things that require time outside of work... not working rest days has been one of my better decisions. Feel years younger

But yet you are happy to supplement your salary outside with business interests. Of course that sort of goes against being on strike. I wonder if you are more than happy to label those who have to cross a picket line that naughty s word, all the while you are earning money elsewhere on the side.

Still I have learnt a lot the last few days on here.

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My position has remained the same throughout.
Well no it has. Because before you was telling everyone you needed a guard on trains longer than 10 cars. Now that argument has been crushed you have decided to cling to another argument about the disabled.
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  #22604  
Old 19-07-2017, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
it would be happening. We'd simply see more strike action and less overtime bans. The model works throughout the rail industry and many other industries. I don't blame ASLEF for exploiting it now, I would in their position as well.

Going down a different route of lots more drivers simply pushes up costs and therefore fares. The model works the vast majority of the time. And it wouldn't stop their being industrial action in a dispute. So you want to change it and increase everyone's fares why exactly?
It would stop O/T and rest day working bans impacting, which has caused the most pain in this dispute for commuters. It's a daily hit (often unexpected), unlike periodic strikes where at least you have the time to plan alternatives.

Lots more drivers? You mean correct staffing levels to run the timetable. Yes please. And if costs go up, that's the rub isn't it.
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  #22605  
Old 19-07-2017, 11:49 AM
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It would stop O/T and rest day working bans impacting, which has caused the most pain in this dispute for commuters. It's a daily hit (often unexpected), unlike periodic strikes where at least you have the time to plan alternatives.

Lots more drivers? You mean correct staffing levels to run the timetable. Yes please. And if costs go up, that's the rub isn't it.
as I said you'd simply see more strike action iff the overtime ban was not available to ASLEF. It doesn't solve the issue you are trying to solve. And the rest of the time it works fine. So what are you trying to achieve?
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  #22606  
Old 19-07-2017, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Latvian Eagle View Post
But yet you are happy to supplement your salary outside with business interests. Of course that sort of goes against being on strike. I wonder if you are more than happy to label those who have to cross a picket line that naughty s word, all the while you are earning money elsewhere on the side.

Still I have learnt a lot the last few days on here.



Well no it has. Because before you was telling everyone you needed a guard on trains longer than 10 cars. Now that argument has been crushed you have decided to cling to another argument about the disabled.
I want guards on all trains... but with negotiation you have to be flexible... my red lines are upgraded cctv and disabled access....(that I mentioned 7 months ago)

I don't understand the bit in bold... could you clarify... are you suggesting I've been insulting people that have crossed the picket line?
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  #22607  
Old 19-07-2017, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerhorst View Post
as I said you'd simply see more strike action iff the overtime ban was not available to ASLEF. It doesn't solve the issue you are trying to solve. And the rest of the time it works fine. So what are you trying to achieve?
I agree.

Sensible employers run their businesses with the least number of people required to deliver the service they promise. As you've said, transport companies across the UK operate in the same way as Southern and until recently they were providing an effective service. It would seem that they have enough staff who are normally willing and able to work overtime and enjoy the extra money.

I wish Southern had employed and trained more staff by now, but I don't accept they need so many permanent drivers they never need to rely on overtime. Many commuters already find the cost of travel difficult, and even those who can afford fare increases wont necessarily get a better service for their extra money. Southern will then come under fire for inefficiencies.

Aslef have a vested interest in Southern hiring a lot more permanent employees, and I don't for a minute believe it is purely an ideological one. More employees means more members means more subs means more power means more strikes if they don't get their own way.
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  #22608  
Old 19-07-2017, 12:05 PM
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Yep. The vested interest point is the one people are ignoring.

The longer term cost rises are also in ASLEF's interest as well for their wider strategic goals.
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  #22609  
Old 19-07-2017, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Latvian Eagle View Post
But yet you are happy to supplement your salary outside with business interests. Of course that sort of goes against being on strike. I wonder if you are more than happy to label those who have to cross a picket line that naughty s word, all the while you are earning money elsewhere on the side.

Still I have learnt a lot the last few days on here.



Well no it has. Because before you was telling everyone you needed a guard on trains longer than 10 cars. Now that argument has been crushed you have decided to cling to another argument about the disabled.
dont forget it's insulting to those earning less than the driver salary when you worry about xmas and anniversaries
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  #22610  
Old 19-07-2017, 01:05 PM
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I'm hearing strikes postponed
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Old 19-07-2017, 01:08 PM
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  #22612  
Old 19-07-2017, 01:09 PM
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Only from the selfish/ignorant. It's clear which side is refusing to negotiate, and it isn't the unions. You should read mushrooms excellent reply. 80% of drivers on here and on the ballot, can't be bought. The DfT need to make a u turn as a result of massive united pressure. You'd best stay at home with your agenda if you don't trust what 4 respected bbsers are telling you is happening. It's blatantly obvious safety concerns are being ignored in a bid to cut, cut, cut.
If there was a protest now I'd be protesting for safe access for the disabled, but also to stop thousands of people's lives being ****ed up every day.

It's not ignorant for people to want to get a service they pay and be able to see their kids.
I've read their posts.
I agree that SOME changes are needed.
But I still stand by my opinion that the action is far too extreme for the reasons. For as long as drivers argue that this is for safety while making it more dangerous and still preventing disabled people getting on trains then I will stand by that.
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  #22613  
Old 19-07-2017, 01:17 PM
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Playing devil's advocate, I could imagine some commuters being upset/offended by drivers gloating about their refusal to work rest says, when many commuter are suffering quite badly as a result of the refusal to work rest days. JAT.
I don't blame anyone for not working rest days.

However when it's clear that a lot of drivers do rely on it, don't mind doing it, it irks me.
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  #22614  
Old 19-07-2017, 01:18 PM
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Yes but it's common sense that you're more likely to do your employer a 'favour' if you're happy in their employment. It's human nature to change that behaviour if you're in dispute.

If they're not contracted to work the day they can do as they like. I'd question the organisation as to why they're relying on staff working rest days to function properly. Doesn't seem the wisest move to me.

Edit - also now that they're used to it I'll be surprised if the majority want to work them again.
We heard exactly the same thing 7 months ago though and it all went back to normal.
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Old 19-07-2017, 01:26 PM
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I want guards on all trains... but with negotiation you have to be flexible... my red lines are upgraded cctv and disabled access....(that I mentioned 7 months ago)

I don't understand the bit in bold... could you clarify... are you suggesting I've been insulting people that have crossed the picket line?
As I said in response to your PM I haven't insinuated anything. I merely wondered your stance.
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Old 19-07-2017, 01:26 PM
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Old 19-07-2017, 01:27 PM
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dont forget it's insulting to those earning less than the driver salary when you worry about xmas and anniversaries
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Old 19-07-2017, 01:47 PM
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Old 19-07-2017, 01:55 PM
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Please let that be true! While mushroom and r-80s bathe in the elixir of youth that is a four day week, I am aging badly because of my 2-3 hour each-way commute...
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Old 19-07-2017, 01:58 PM
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Please let that be true! While mushroom and r-80s bathe in the elixir of youth that is a four day week, I am aging badly because of my 2-3 hour each-way commute...
I'd give my left nut for a 4day week.
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